Autodesk to go subscription-based only
Oct 03, 2014 by CGP Staff
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Finally, the day has come. At the Autodesk Investor Day, which took place October 1st, the company’s Senior Vice President and Industry Strategy & Marketing Andrew Anagnost revealed that the company will be transitioning to a new rental-based only model and will be removing the sale of perpetual software licenses in the next 12-24 months.
Anagnost stated that there are still 2.9 million non-subcribers that happen to purchase perpetual licenses on an infrequent basis because they can, and that this isn’t good for the company’s ecosystem, because there is a significant number of people working with non-current releases. According to Anagnost, the shift in business model is not only the right thing for the company’s business, but also the right thing for customers.
The move comes one year after Autodesk announced the discontinuation of the ability to purchase software upgrades for owners of perpetual licenses of previous versions of Autodesk software, and is in line with Adobe’s move last year of switching to a subscription-based only model.
A PDF with the slides from Andrew Anagnost’s presentation and the complete audio recording can be found on Autodesk’s website.
Anagnost stated that there are still 2.9 million non-subcribers that happen to purchase perpetual licenses on an infrequent basis because they can, and that this isn’t good for the company’s ecosystem, because there is a significant number of people working with non-current releases. According to Anagnost, the shift in business model is not only the right thing for the company’s business, but also the right thing for customers.
The move comes one year after Autodesk announced the discontinuation of the ability to purchase software upgrades for owners of perpetual licenses of previous versions of Autodesk software, and is in line with Adobe’s move last year of switching to a subscription-based only model.
A PDF with the slides from Andrew Anagnost’s presentation and the complete audio recording can be found on Autodesk’s website.
Source: Steve Green
Time to move to blender. Those 3dsmax and maya users who haven’t checked it out for a while, do yourselves a favor and download blender 2.72. The feature set is amazing, and it’s free and open source. The workflow takes some getting used to, but it’s a breath of fresh air when you do.
Was afraid of this. As a hobbyist, I’m glad I held off on getting into Autodesk products. “right thing for customers”, what arrogance. “Bye” Autodesk, no purchase from me, we don’t need each other.
How, exactly, is this a good thing for max users? And where do we migrate to if we don’t like it?
It depends what you do I guess.
I bought a seat of Modo about a year ago, but haven’t seriously got to grips with it yet.
There’s always the danger that the same will happen to the software you end up using, unless it’s Blender.
Or just stick with whatever current version of Max you have. To be honest the bulk of the work I do could be done with Max 9 or earlier.
Will we be able to stick to a current version? I have Modo 601 as well, and it’s great, but a pain for everyday type work at which Max excels.
I originally got Max because of Biped, but Modo has nothing like that. Also, Modo has new investors as well…….
I would imagine so, I think if they tried to retrospectively terminate licenses or not issue licenses for existing perpetual license it wouldn’t be the best publicity, and possibly illegal.
This news makes me literally sick. Physically, my stomach wants to wretch.
I tested the Subscription on Mudbox 2015. I let it run for 3 months. I read this article and realized how much Autodesk did not really make 2015 much better than the perpetual license of Mudbox 2011 that I own.
So I cancelled that subscription in the middle of writing this.
Autodesk, instead of sharing the expletives that want to flow from my tongue, please instead listen to this. I won’t buy into this.
I’ve been a customer for years. Many others are too. Those that don’t stay up to the current version do so because they either don’t have the money or you have not offered them enough incentive to upgrade. The morally correct and possibly best business strategy it to make your customers happy–not to hold them hostage by these moves.
Like many other customers, I’ve been loyal and happy to pay for each upgrade.
I’m not going to rent software from you. Period. And I will, like many others, be upset that I will eventually have to make the choice to stay with the existing versions of my licenses or to move on to competitors. Seriously, I think that many of your users will move to competitors. Many of us who love 3ds Max will pay our money to another company or move to Blender.
This hurts Autodesk. This hurts 3rd part developers who depend on 3ds Max customers wanting plugins. And this hurts 3rd part developers because now your Max users are forced to spend a bigger budget on your subscription utility bill. And each thing that hurts the plugin developers will also hurt the general community of users… which hurts you. You are shooting yourself in the foot.
You are turning fans and customers into enemies.
Woo us with reasons to upgrade. Don’t lie to the public about the reasons you are doing this.
I agree with every word of that. As an Autodesk student account holder though, it does raise other concerns about updates – are they going the Adobe route and forcing every update on us, even if it destroys the plug-ins? If so, I might just have to move back to Blender.
Well, after Adobe did it we all knew it’d happen sooner or later but seriously.. just admit that it’s not about “the right thing for the customer”. It’s about getting customers to keep paying constantly. If you don’t pay you won’t be able to use the Software, so better keep your eye on the calender!
Stop paying subscriptions to make a point and let Autodesk know this development model of “doing nothing” will not be tolerated? Ha! Not anymore! – F*** development, people will pay anyways.
i am surprised by it but also was expecting it.
expecting it because adsk shows no ethics when it comes to their users base and only makes the profitable move, but the surprise comes from my view that this is an incredibly stupid move:
adsk is not adobe. whereas adobe has virtually no competition in some areas, 3d software field has so much strong competition. even worse is the fact that majority of the max community is so entirely dissatisfied with the development of max. people are aching to jump ship and this is totally what will push them over.
the current rental pricing models are insane. essentially the current users will just get a price hike of 1000€ on their subscription fee, AND lose the option to use the software i outside the sub.
this is just crazy.
not to mention the fact that max is so dependent on the plugins which as a system just dont work with a subscription basis.
wouldnt be nice again to have that product manager gentleman to chime in an assure the users how all is going extremely well for us all. “we just need to be patient”.
this is bizarre business logic and frankly quite disgusting.
i am out.
Now includes Rental Ray 🙂
Not sure if it’s a bad thing, if the price is lower then the subscription. What will go away is the 4000+ euro investment user have to make which can be quite a lot for a new company/user.
And since it’s renting instead of subscription they can be more open about future developments like Adobe is.
I think the plugin/script developers are really important in this.
(I’m thinking of those who are creating freebies/low cost plugins)
If they just say, screw it – then that potentially leaves holes in future versions.
Autodesk have limbo danced as low as it’s possible to get, unless they start refusing to issue licences for anyone not renting/subscribing.
SideFX & The Foundry must be cheering and applauding!
Autodesk is seriously boosting their business… all they have to do now is offer sidegrades… if they don’t already.
Well we can all rant at this now but it’s going to be all big software. So while you think that others won’t follow the trend your wrong.
Adobe is pushing to rentals & even the cloud based delivery of software to advect piracy. So other software giants are sitting back to see if it works then they follow along.
Pick your poison now because either way it’s where software is headed.
That worked well.
http://gizmodo.com/adobes-creative-cloud-has-already-been-pirated-514563307
Rental in UK is £1280 per year for 3ds max…that’s nearly $600 more than USA for the very same download…not even including the extra 20% tax we have for VAT…their charges for rental is simply too expensive, simple as that…if it were more like £360 a year for software that STOPS if you don’t continue renting then yeh..okay maybe i’d rent…but £128.00 per month is too much based on 12 month rental contract inc vat)
I really can’t see people signing upto 12 month contracts…maybe they’ll stay with older version and rent for a month for specific needs…but realistically it think this will just drive people away from 3ds max and maya and go with houdini indi at $199 a year and add Modo or jump aboard cinema4d, plus there’s others such as we hope a big leap forward with lightwave 12 due out next summer..and the ever present Blender…options mr autodesk we have options..unlike the Adobe crowd, even then…the rental price was pretty attractive from adobe, not so with what i see in the rental area of the autodesk store right now.
Houdini Indie is already rental ony.
Time of change ? I asked this myself, like many others, often during the last years, when Autodesk delivered feature-poor releases. At the end, my hope was stronger than my critical thoughts, so I renewed the subscription year after year.
Now that they made it very clear that they want more money, it’s time for me to re-think my ‘hopes’.
Autodesk, you’re going for more money, more value for your invesotry ? I can do this too. I’m not the wet wimp you can squeeze out as you like.
After I had always doubts, if the value you deliver with new releases justifies the yearly subscrition of 620,-€ (excl. VAT), I’m speechless to see that want more than 1500,-€ for the yearly rental. More than 200% price up ? No way.
I’ve been nearly exclusively using 3dsMax since nearly 10 years, a result of my lazyness and comfort. As my father always said, always ride on two rails, not on a single one.
Thinking about what new software I can get for the yearly 1800,-€ (incl.VAT)…for 3600,-€ after 2 years, I think my decision was just made. Luckily in the past I got hands on Cinema4D and Blender, and got enough practice enough to make the switch.
10 years ago, after a first project in Cinema4D, I decided for 3dsMax. Good time now to give Cinema4D it’s ride. And of course Blender, where 3dsMax has already fallen behind in certain features.
My current subscription runs till next year. I’ll definitely use my time and do the one or other practice-project in alternative software. Autodesk, you’re going for the maximum financial gain, I’m going there as well.
Is subscription in UK for 3ds Max really going to be £1280+VAT?
http://www.exactprice.co.uk/acatalog/3ds-Max-2015-Desktop-Subscription-.html
£1195 + VAT is the current annual rental price.
F*ck that
Latest news. “Apple, Tesla and Ford motor company have decided that their wares will only be provided though a lease model. Perpetual ownership is a thing of the past as this is where the industry is going. Similarly, in a Lowe’s investor meeting, top executives propose a subscription model for their latest kitchen offerings, stating that they feel a monthly fee is the best plan for the maintenance of their new ovens and sinks, and is good for customers. A Barnes and Noble representative chimes in to clarify that owners of books technically aren’t ‘pirates’ but allowing the ownership of books absolutely must come to an end.”
I am utterly bored of Autodesk and 3ds Max. I have been using this application since version 1.
For years no serious development and now rental.
I can not see any reason to stay. Its time to stop.
I think the way forward is to stay on the current version and begin migrating to Houdini. Best of worlds now and a future.
F*ck that indeed
Blender 2.72 just released, no subscription, no rental, just 3d software ready to rock, now with pie menus..best bet if you’re new to blender – at the splash screen choose the 3ds max key mapping option.
http://www.blender.org/download/
@artist 199$ per year…
Roses are red, violets are blue! Autodesk want me to Bleed, F*ck that Indeed.
Sad news!! While this is somewhat expected, given the current trend in the industry, I was really hoping Autodesk would be smart enough not to follow.
I believe this is such a bad decision – good for the investors, but really bad for the customers. Once you are in on the rental model, how can you ever quit without losing all your old work? There is no buy-out option. You stop paying – the software stops working, and all your old projects are bricked – until you pay again. How can that be good for the customer? And if they raise the prices in a while, how easy will it be to cancel?
It’s interesting that autodesk “say” that artists love the idea of rental…and yet here in the comments section we don’t see 3ds max and maya artists cheering from the sidelines about rental only options. How do we square that circle?
Will there be a surprise backlash next year?…will autodesk drop the rental price to somewhere near ‘subscription levels’ for owners of perpetual licences before subscription goes extinct?
Will autodesk match the $199 houdini indie levels with 3ds max?
$199 Vs $1280 is quite a difference for 12 month contract.( and yeh houdini indi has limits)
The cost of useage is going up. (no more ownership)
I’d be interested in what Maxon come out with next summer…see if they are truly interested in getting migration from 3ds max artists and not just some stupid $50 off offer for sidegrades…cinema4d is the nearest to 3ds max from what i can see.
Business rule #1: you cannot run a healthy business acting against your customers’ needs.
Especially with other lean companies around with fast reflexes waiting to take advantage of your missteps.
Been looking at the Houdini introductory vids. The layout looks pretty logical, like Max.
Has anyone here tried going from Max to Houdini? I always thought Houdini was strictly hardcore, but I think the Indy version might be what self employed generalists like me need.
The fact that Side Effects actually develop software is encouraging. Imagine if Autodesk did that instead of thinking up new ways of stealing money. Their exciting new rental scheme is a form of financial fracking.
Is there one user who likes this idea?
hi,
Read your comment. I was a 3dsmax user all the way from 3d Studio Release 3 days. Finally after the last 4 years of almost no progress I slowly shifted from 3dsmax to Houdini over a period of 2 years ago. I used the Apprentice version which is free.
The learning curve is a little steep but once you get past the node based workflow it is an incredibly powerful toolset. Especially if you are into VFX and motion graphics.
Sidefx is also much more open and the development of the software is extremely good. Mantra , their renderer, has been improved every version. Between version 11 and 12 the render times dropped by nearly 50%. It’s also great at handling Displacement and motion blur. On a look or quality level it easily matches Vray or any of the other major renderers. It is a little slow in certain cases like Interior Rendering.
Also if you are into VFX you literally don’t need any plugins.
The only place where it is lacking is if you are into Character Animation. It’s not the best when it comes to animating stuff manually. But I believe they are planning to improve that. They recently hired a bunch of ex-softimage developers.
I know I sound a bit like a fan boy but I have had almost no reason to regret shifting.
I have also made a few tutorials to help out 3dsmax users who want to shift to Houdini which you can find on my website. I hope you find them useful. (Apologies for the shameless plugging 🙂 )
http://www.rohandalvi.net/free/
Also check out Peter Quint on Vimeo
https://vimeo.com/user2030228
Also I am putting a link to my work. The initial 5-6 images are done entirely in Houdini. Just to give you an idea of what the renderer is capable of.
http://www.rohandalvi.net/stills
regards
Rohan Dalvi
Thanks Rohan,
This is just the sort of practical advice we really need just now.
I think phased migration is the way to go. Thanks also for the links.
If they have the Softimage programmers, then the future looks good.
jb
I think the critical error Autodesk is making is when they say “Adobe did it, and it worked for them”
Adobe is the strangest duck, it really has no competitors. There is no really good alternative to Photoshop or After Effects, (I use Gimp all the time, but I do wish I had Photoshop) so people can’t bail. But Autodesk is in a crowded market — Lightwave, C4D, Blender, Modo… customers have options. I hope this comes to bite them in the @$$.
I think it`s all been said already. Congrats to Autodesk but you`re going where I won`t follow. Still it`s not like there aren`t a whole load of versions you can still happily use into infinity if you don`t mind a plethora of mostly unasked for improvements and continued lack of bug fixes and addition of new bugs. 3dsmax 2012 for ever !
After Autdesk bought Maya a few years ago, I had the fear that the main aim was to remove a competitor. To bring back the cost of acquisition, investment in further development of the software could be cut to a minimum, because of a lack of alternatives for the users. With the introduction of the subscription model and just minimal development and innovations in last years releases, I felt confirmed. As Autodesk announced subsciption mandatory and prohibited “manual” updates from 2015 on, it went the in same direction. Introducing a rental-systems is a logical consequence of this policy. Now Autodesk can further cut back on spending on software development and focus on fixing UI and minor bugs. Good news for the shareholders and really bad news for the users.
So, what are the future prospects? You will pay for an annual rental of a software that´s not significantly different from the software you rented last year. You don´t own anything, so you can´t say, I will stay with my old version. Autodesk knows that´s impossible to switch from a 3D software to another in a year, be equaliy productive and reach the same level in the new software. Therefore you depend on their products and I think they will use this to increase prices for rentals even more in the future.
So, what are the options? From an economic perspective, Autodesk company’s policy provides for me and my business no future security. I think I will use my not-rented version of MAX as long as I can. I will expand my production pipeline with other software packages, with the option to switch complete production sectors or maybe completely later on. Hopefully the money spend there will result in more competition in the 3D sector and furter software development.
I wonder why adesk doesn’t ask themselves the most obvious question…”why are people working with non-current releases?”…instead of “how do we force everyone to use current releases”. Lets press Thinkbox and Chaosgroup to come up with a new 3d app!!!!
I think we digital artists will have the same problem with any software company in the long term.
As many people have pointed out the development on these applications goes to minimal as soon as they go rental and these companies are only interested in revenue collection. Monopolies are good for nobody. We have all experiencing carrot and stick economics from Autodesk for the last few years.
The long term solution to quoting Marx is we need to own the means of production.
I have never used Blender but it offers a different model of development and relationship to is users. Could the Blender model be the way forward?
http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/08/autodesk-may-be-next-to-offer-rental-model/
Bass said. “Because we’re starting in a different place than Adobe, we don’t feel the need to force people, as they did, to go to these new license models and end perpetual licenses.”
And just over a year later…
“Give me a lever long enough, and I shall move the world.”
Archimedes
Give me a software which competes with max, in its any or all aspect, and i will switch to it. So far i have tried almost anything, but AD solution is still without competition, sorry
ps. the subscription fear was announced in a very realistic way a year ago, in those long maxunderground discussion; I am not surprised at all.
Well I’m not surprised. At the moment I’m lucky, my employer pays for my subscription and my rental when it comes. So what will happen? Same as what happened with Adobe we’ll just bend over and accept it.
I’m still on PhotoShop 5.1 and AfterEffects 5.5 I have no need to upgrade to the rental versions and even though I wouldn’t need to pay the subcription personally I’ll resist it as much as I can. Despite what others say there are alternatives to the Adobe apps and I’m looking into it. How many here are on the Adobe Cloud system? How many have found alternative apps?
It’s the same with Autodesk, there are alternatives, however I’ve been using Max a long time and have a lot invested in it, my time being the most expensive item. However I do intend to look around and learn something else, Blender is free, might be worth a shot.
But I would say this, I honestly think that the cloud/rental/subscription model is the future, as much as I dislike it. We can resist but the change is inevitable.
Yeah, that’s a pity :((
Oh, and note a result of this wrong way :
http://fudzilla.com/home/item/35778-adobe%E2%80%99s-subscription-model-falters
( They just wanna screw freelancers in this way? Why? What for? )
…went to study Blender…
I’m happy I did the jump 5 years ago. Went to Modo. I don’t need character animation often, and if Alembic or FBX do the job for me. I can’t say I have saved a lot money, but I put it in other things. Changed to Apple, etc.
Honestly 3dsmax is a good software and in some cases I miss some features, but I wouldn’t go back, never. What I’m not missing is Vray or Mentalray. The future is GPU anyway.
Also C4D is a good software or Houdini if you like.
I also own a Adobe CS 6.0 suite. Happy to have it. CC will never win a place on my computer. Its not a bad concept and the price is lot more fair then Autodesk plans. But since Adobe did that move I dropped After Effects (went to Nuke) and also Photoshop get more and more seldom used. Did they ever update Photoshop since v.6 ? I can’t remember seeing some new stuff. Maybe I’m just don’t use it.
But even now many write here about there plans,etc. I doubt it happens. Companies got there pipelines and resources. Switching software cost a lot money and effort. It took me 2 years to convert my libraries to Modo (about 30 Evermotion, etc). But it was also fun to do, indeed the whole switch was just 4 week pain and then years of joy with a fresh software that get great updates every year.
Where’s the alternative viewpoint…apparently according to Autodesk PR, USERS love the idea of Rental…so where’s their responses online?..not seen a single one so far.
hands up who like the idea of Rental only in the near future?
Well, that’s just marketing bull**** with a loaded question.
Rental as an OPTION is fine, wonderful.
As the only option it’s dire.
Honestly most of their market results are likely positive. a huge percentage of people I speak to just do not ‘get it’ – we are not complaining about rental options, it’s the rental-ONLY approach.
You try to talk to people about that and they do not comprehend. Rental-only is bad for everyone.
Rental works for me if its cheap and flexible. Adobe stuff is reasonable at this point. Autodesk sadly not. Thinking particles reasonable but unflexible. I would be happy if i could rent vray/fume/thinkbox stuff for a few months at a time. Most of the time I am working out of studios who have the tools. I do a few jobs from home and some personal work.
Just wondering what people feel about discussing roadmap stuff that was under NDA, consider Carl has done a 180 on the ‘no enforced rental’ in the space of a year?
I am in shock… is it possible that Desktop subscription is replacing our current subscription model? Currently I pay $770 Australian Dollars for yearly subscription. Desktop subscription is $2070 per year! This price increase will not be an option for me… not even close! How does AD think that they can compete at those prices? Way too many people like me will not (can not) get on board!
Does anyone at Autodesk think about the PLUGINS AND SCRIPTS of 3ds Max for example? That’s a reason why perpetual licenses are better, because is not only the Autodesk software, we need to work with many scripts and plugins and I can’t pay every month to be updated with the latest releases. I have 3ds Max 2013 and a bunch of scripts and plugins and I really work good… Autodesk is getting crazy or what?
I’m going to play devil’s advocate. I’m on Adobe’s subscription and I love it. There are less useless features added because there are constant updates. Keep in mind, I have many AE plugins too and it’s still doing fine. In fact, having Adobe refine their products allows the plugin creators to also stay on top of things too. It’s mutally beneficial. If Autodesk could follow this path along with giving a reasonable price, that would be great.
What does make me nervous(understandably) is how Autodesk kind of “talks over” its customers and community. For me, as long as they offer Max in a competitive manner to something like Houdini Indie or even Max LT, I think I would be happy with that. Going through the slides, I got the impression that they were kind of hinting at that. However, its Autodesk and not Adobe so I am very cautious. Autodesk always had that “Our customers are ANTS!” vibe. They should also keep in mind that there is not a Max/Maya user alive that doesn’t rely on plugins.
I’m blabbing. But my point is that if they offer something reasonably priced and actually not stagnant on development then I’ll jump in.
I am a bit confused by all this , so does this mean, even people who are on subscriptions will have to pay a new desktop subscription fee?
Stark you miss a key point: Adobe and now Autodesk are forcing subscription on you. By saying you love it, it encourages others like the foundry and maxon to jump on board.
That’s the key thing: you love subscription, but in this case its not an option, it’s mandated.
There is absolutely no reason for a company not to offer choice between buy or rent. Its all about loosing choice. We had the option to buy, upgrade, subscribe and adobe and Autodesk are taking it away. Look into the future, this is a business desicion that will never benefit customers in the long run.
Yes rental plans are great AS AN OPTION. The accountants in these companies deserve their high salaries because these schemes are obviously very successful at generating profit from most users!
To support creative cloud subscription-only approaches is to be short sighted!
I have my subscription to max..for freelance jobs outside of my day job. $770 in Australia, absolutely rediculous but geez not as bad as the UK.
It will expire in June, soon after the release of 2016. If Autodesk really shoot themselves in the foot and go ahead with rental only, my subs will lapse and I will quite happily be able to invest that $770 into more 3rd party devs / DCCs WHILE still being able to use max 2016 for as long as I want.
As Steve and others have said, the whole point of a perpetual license is you can use It for ever if you want. Max 2016…max 2014…any of them are still going to be very useful for years while you slowly transition your pipeline in stages to something else.
Yes, rental makes definitely sense, as option.
As only way to use the software, it puts me under very uncomfortable pressure. If I’m successful, I can pay the rental.
But if I have a weak year and can’t afford further rental, pitty. Autodesk will take me the worspace away and I’ll be completely lost, without a chance to continue working.
That’s why, rental as only option is and will be not acceptable for me.
Maybe the brains at Autodesk would be happy if changes are forced onto them personally, taking away their stocks, their houses, their cars…not alowed to own anything anymore, only rental. If they welcome this, I don’t.
That’s my view as well. Max is used by a lot of small/micro/oneperson outfits because it is ideal for doing that kind of work. Autodesk themselves liked to refer to it as a Swiss Army Knife application. That was the whole Maya/Max split. Maya for big pipelines and film projects, Max for the lone wolf animators.
Rental agreements are OK for bigger companies, but freelancers have very unpredictable cashflow, and would prefer not to have the tools of their trade taken from them if they hit a rough patch.
Autodesk pro:
– constant income
– more profit due to more people in subscriptions
– no developers needed supporting old versions with hotfixes (saves money)
– no wasted time on annual stable releases, just adding features when they’re ready (saves money)
Client pro:
– getting features when they’re ready, don’t have to wait for annual releases / no half-finished stuff (ideally)
– frequent updates (ideally)
[- rent licenses only when you need it (freelancers/varying team sizes) (but you don’t need a subscription-only business model for this)]
Client contra:
– Stop paying and you have nothing.
– Probably no way to get old versions for old jobs using plugins which have not been recompiled
– once everyone is in the cloud you can’t do anything against increasing prices, apart from cancelling the subscription but…
– …you are bound to your software package, you won’t easily switch to some competitor by tomorrow, Autodesk knows that.
– there is no guarantee Autodesk will not slow down development in order to save expenses (seriously, why shouldn’t they, next years increase of profit is the important thing, who cares about what happens in 5 years)
For me, the price (be it more or less than today) is less a problem than the other implications of a subscription-only model. You have a lot less possibilities to oppose policy changes.
There’s also the question of what would they have offered SI users if this had been in place?
You can keep paying us to use your EOLd software?
What happens if 5 years from now Max is canned and their offer is to continue to rent Maya and use whatever the last version of Max was?
Does that sound like a great solution for those in bed with rental only models?
Houdini is a “rental”, true.. But for my shop I am looking at how much less expensive Housing Indie is…. Anyone seen US suggested pricing for this?… If it is less than $500/year no complaints here. If it is a penny more than I am paying now I am done. Hey…. Has the newly-dedicated-to-more-communication team from Autodesk returned to their hidey hole??
Jim, I think I’m in a similar boat as you. If they want to tie us to the software, they need meet us halfway. I was thinking about why I personally feel a low, reasonable price is important; besides the obvious.
It’s almost like user insurance. If I pay too much then I’m screwed and they win. If I pay just right, they win, I win, and it assures that if they pull a shady move then I will walk away.
If not totally aware of it by this point, though. Autodesk HAS to realize that Max isn’t seen as a complete self-contained application. Hell no, currently it’s a platform for third-party plugins. This is why I’m okay with the rental model as long as it’s price comes down. Until max is as feature rich as houdini(even if you don’t do fx), they need to really consider what the software IS when deciding a price. Not what it WAS or what they say it WILL BE.
Basically, between Max and Maya, Maya is the college student with a bright future and Max is the junkie “has been” that’s sleeping on the floor mattress in a stranger’s spare room. So don’t try to price it like they’re equals.
Is it officially announced?
Where can I see official pricing?
AFAIK, this is not officially announced. This article is relating to an ADSK presentation recently held. I guess you have to wait some more months for some information from them.
The possible prices people are talking about here assume that the current desktop subscription prices will be adopted.
Since they were going rental all the way, they could have kept Softimage alive as a rental no more patches only. I would surely rent Softimage, I love it.
Now … what’s said about Max is true. The price has to be inferior to Maya since they aren’t on par. Or launch a Max Model, because for me, it’s still the best modeler all around.
I’ve read I think on CGSociety a guy saying he has received communication about a webinar explaining some things. He said probably is for paying customers, so I hope that the people who are attending can come here and share the light.
It LOOKS like we will be expected to move from paying around 500USD to paying around THREE TIMES that much, based on the page I’m seeing.
No.Flipping.Way.
The comparisons to Adobe are natural and reasonable, but as a current subscriber to Creative Cloud I think that there are SUBSTANTIAL differences – at least for my shop.
I used to maintain Sony Vegas, Max, PhotoShop, Illustrator, and a bunch of other companies’ products. When they introduced creative cloud, I could no longer choose to just spend about $400 per year to upgrade my two Adobe products…BUT for the small amount of extra money I got EVERYTHING THEY MAKE.
This allowed me to migrate off of Vegas and a few other products. The end result was that I am now on a fairly common platform (benefit to me), I own more software (granted I don’t use it all), and I no longer needed to upgrade all these other tools.
What exactly is the benefit to me of this change for Max? If they bundled Mudbox (which I don’t think they are) then I could stop using ZBrush…but I think Mudbox is trash compared to Zbrush..oh and by the way that doesn’t save me money because to-date I have gotten FREE updates to ZB.
With Adobe CC, as annoying as it was to be forced, there truly was a user benefit. Autodesk is offering to charge me three times as much for exactly what I’ve been subscribed to before… there are no products in my pipeline that I will no longer need when this happens. ALL this does for me, and indeed for anyone who has supported AD the whole way by subscribing, is increase my costs, and make it so that the instant I stop paying, I lose all functionality.
Scumbag move… and as noted, all the people from AD who have been promising a future paradise are silent.
*** With Adobe CC, as annoying as it was to be forced, there truly was a user benefit. Autodesk is offering to charge me three times as much for exactly what I’ve been subscribed to before… there are no products in my pipeline that I will no longer need when this happens. ALL this does for me, and indeed for anyone who has supported AD the whole way by subscribing, is increase my costs, and make it so that the instant I stop paying, I lose all functionality. ***
Very well said!
Jim, your Adobe example falls short in two aspects: 1.) You do not “own more software”, you merely are temporarily allowed by Adobe to use more software; there is no way, for example, that you can transfer that “ownership” to someone else. 2.) You will no longer be able to stop paying Adobe CC and simply continue with what you have payed for already in the years before; you better cross your fingers that Adobe do not triple the pricing in a few years..
despite normally being a grouch, I think I found the way to look at the bright side of this… each year I paid 500 and they gave me basically nothing for the past 3 or 4 years. Now since it’s a rental there is no penalty for leaving and coming back… Now in 2015 I will pay them nothing.. And if Eddie’s promises end up being true I can buy and it will cost me no more, right?
I no longer have to take it every year… So that is good news at least
Jim, this was the point I was trying to make earlier. If they do nothing to improve Max, none of us are tied to them and can leave if they continue to stagnant.
Stark – that very point simply isn’t true. Once you are “in” on the rental model, there is no exit – unless you trash all your previous work. If they do nothing and you decide to stop paying, then you got nothing left. They take away your software and the ability to open old projects as well. Sounds like a great position for Autodesk to negotiate prices in a few years…
I see what you’re saying, but this is where competition comes in. If a competitor offers something better in migration/use/cost then that’s where you go. 3ds Max is not the only application out there. Yes it will suck to leave and switch, and I’d prefer not to. But if it comes to that, then it comes to that.
MB – we are talking about two different things. My post was less about rental itself, but about the huge difference in value between the two approaches.
I’m not saying the rental model is good, i am just responding to Autodesk and others comparing it to CC. Yes I own nothing in both cases, but when Adobe pulled their move they gave me tons more functionality for slightly more in annual costs (yes, realizing I no longer own anything)…..autodesk just wants all the bad aspects of rental, no bonus functionality, and triple the price
rental is £1280 a year plus vat { 20% )..if you’ve never owned 3dsmax or maya…
exactly how rental works once owners of 3dsmax are abandoned from “subscription at £625 a year”
ir if they’ll offer a transition to rental…lower pricing?..i doubt it..we have accountants at work remember trying to please share holders….i hope i’m wrong..i really do cos if just one of those rentals gets down here…then you can kick all the b.s good bye!
Ugh. Back to Blender.
Expecting this outcome, no longer will I subscribe to 3DS Max/Maya. I have been transitioning to Cinema 4D and Modo. Yes, they could eventually do the same but I do sense a greater sense of customer loyalty from Maxon and The Foundry. Customer care does count!
I feel bad mainly for the folks who sell me plug-ins.. There are some companies I have been with for around 20 years who will lose my business unless they start making tools for other base packages
Well… I see a lot of whining about less than expected revenue in Autodesks future.
At least they make it easy for me. I was about to cancel my subscription… but the new rental model I simply cannot afford.
Time to look into alternatives. That will hurt… but this is just too much.
I don’t particularly mind the rental as long as it’s an option. If it isn’t then it should be cheap enough to at least think about transitioning.
Adobe CC in India is about Rs.35000/- for their entire suite. Which is very affordable. Getting over 11 softwares for just Rs.35000/- per year seems quite attractive.
Houdini Indie is $200 per year which in Indian Rupees is Rs.12000/- . Again that is a very good offer. To get a power house like Houdini with bare minimal restrictions like Animation render size limited to Full HD is a very attractive offer. Also Houdini is literally a one stop shop for VFX. It has all the tools you need and a kickass renderer so again a great offer. I already bought it.
But the 3dsmax rental pricing seems insane. In India 3dsmax costs Rs.150,000/- for a permanent license. The rental pricing converted from the UK pricing is Rs.128,000/- per year.
That makes no sense what so ever. And then you have start thinking of all the various plugins you need to get 3dsmax to start functioning like a proper software.This is a crazy decision. Thank god I shifted to Houdini almost a year ago due to the extreme lack of development on the 3dsmax front.
So, many people are talking about ADSK´s rental prices. But have they already been announced? I do not think so.
Yes, there is the yearly desktop subscription (rental) which is available for some time, but it has not been stated that these prices will also apply for existing customers when ADSK starts to go rental only.
Pricing is not really the point.
1. Even if they were announced and they were low, that’s no guarantee they would stay that way.
2. A locked in userbase has no leverage over development – if they withhold payment, then they lose the ability to use the software. A perpetual license doesn’t have that flaw.
3. If they’d wanted to make rental pricing attractive, and reflected the price they were really after, wouldn’t the existing rental be at that point?
4. Carl Bass stated that there would still be a perpetual license a year ago.
I’m not inclined to have much faith in a company that backtracks on that in the space of a year. (See also Softimage has a bright future)
i am seeing your posts across a couple of forum.
i think alot of people, including me, need to be somewhat educated what this system would mean in the long run. thank you for bringing level headed arguments to this topic.
Cheers,
yeah here and CGTalk really – It’s something I’m fundamentally opposed to as a sole option.
Autodesk have been increasingly disappointing over the past few years, in features and in policy.
Now the attempt at pushing development looks like it’s going to be torpedoed by the management.
I just don’t understand how a fair few number of people just see a short-term benefit and none of the likely pitfalls.
> Pricing is not really the point.
I don’t think so.
Everybody is happy about Houdini Indie even though it is rental only.
artist with Houdini you have the option to go and purchase a permanent license, renting is not the only option.
If you use houdini here and there then you may want to get the indy version (if you make less than 100k/year gross revenue), but if Houdini is the center of your pipeline is better to acquire the permanent license.
Cheers.
you should see the scale of pricing they have for us here in Australia, (everything is double the cost down under), I’m a Masters of Animation student and we use Autodesk Maya as our 3D software, I thought previously “hey once I’m out of uni I could save and buy the software and do some work to show some companies to get a job” but there’s no way to do that now, how do they expect people to get a start in the industry when yearly at the minimum price here in AU $ (for the basic version) it’s…. Maya Basic, Priced from: AUD 5,175.00 per anum, and the Entertainment Creation Suite Ultimate : From AUD 9,600.00 (which would be a third of my yearly income on one piece of software) NO WAY JOSE, Blender damnitt is the only way out, so many users of Autodesk software are having to jump ship because of this, and that forces the company to up the price to keep their pockets full. Crazy
For personal stuff, learn and create a showreel, simply download the student version. Its totally free for 3 years, the only limitation is that you can not use it for any comercial work.
I’m back on subscription…until 2017..then i’ll see what i’m going after that!
Well they had a good run.
Autodesk says: “We want the best for you!” 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9xvmvCSLAI
Heh, it’s already a parody.
Oh you might hire some staff – best you fork out this massive upfront cost + subscription, to buy software that you can’t re-sell if it doesn’t pan out.
“Good for Autodesk, bad for you”
I wish to quit using computers entirely, so I do not have to put up with subscription software.
Not sure which is better. For startups and individuals looking to make a living not sure if spending a little every month is better in contrast to those old perpetual licencing model (with a mandatory subscription) which is equivalent to the cost of half a car.
However as against the old posts mentioning (from exactpice.co.uk) as £1200 per year, it is now £755 per year. Some logical reasoning behind the reduced pricing?
there may be many scenarios in which rental is best suited but it cannot be the only option. that is the point.
what i find especially grating is the “its best for our customers” marketing-speak. it is one thing to have something forced upon you, but being so patronising as to telling us what is best for us…months have passed and i am still livid about it. adobe pulled it off because of the very low price and virtually no competition to photoshop. i will be extremely suprised if autodesk does not fall flat on its face.
on the other hand the shares are on a steady climb so what do i know.
but please – just look at the forums for mudbox or motionbuilder. the support is non existent. i really dug a bit yesterday, the website is in shambles. broken links galore, no tablet support, convoluted as hell…
i cannot honestly wait for the 1.2.2016 just to see the shitestorm it will cause.
I imagine that’s RRP.
BlueGFX still lists Max as £986+VAT which brings it up to 1180ish
http://www.bluegfx.com/shop/3d-software/3ds-max/