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Wow, wasn’t expecting that.
What’s everyone going to moan about now?
My exact thoughts as well. They really did a good job on this update, and I think they deserve some positive credit for this.
Thank you Stig & Garry!
You may be surprised… but I agree hehehe
what to moan about..um how about rental only and if you don’t then we’ll make ya pay thru the nose to keep your investment version.
too late guys…too late..i’m out.
Cool, I hear you.. But have you really looked at the math? I pay just over $5 a day to access the software I use to pay my rent. The utility this package affords me has allowed me to live and work all over the world for two decades now.
Put it another way, the yearly cost of this subscription is less than 2% of the income the software allows me to earn, they update and add functionality constantly, they’re fuzzy on the actual number of seats they allow you run concurrently (I’ll often fire up multiple sessions across a couple machines to troubleshoot or sim while working, and even though I only pay for one seat they allow it)
There’s always a downside to anything and I get that, but you have to weigh the positives against the bad to get an accurate picture otherwise you just spiral into negativity.
Houdini indie 199$ rental Price year
Its about 0,5$ per day
And There is option to get perpetual license which could be 0.005 $ per day in long term use for example if there is no need for upgrade (and If OS Allow use same software 10-60 years 🙂
How about Blender?
Why would you use overpriced Houdini when Blender is free?
a guy:
blender is free, yes. But when we compare blender to houdinifx, Houdini is more advanced and more stable – that makes it more affordable for pro users 🙂
But sure Blender can be compared to 3ds max 🙂 because both of them crash multiple times in real production, both of them have fragmented features.
Oh.. I almost forget… Houdini has free version too 😉
Maybe your experience is different, but Blender crashes way less than Max for me.
Anyways… Blender and Houdini are not comparable, in fact they complement pretty well, they are targeted towards different tasks with different workflows so they are a fantastic duo! 😀
Cheers!
I have to say this, even as a first release is rock solid.
Nice interface, very intuitive, we get even prt direct exports, yay! thanks!
Motionfield is very nice and powerful. Sure, we need much more things to be added, but as first step, Im very happy. Rock on 3dsmax!
Oh, and I forget about simulation on the background, allowing you to keep working while siming. Super fast cache playblack (yes, FAST!), and nice integration with arnold allowing rendering on the fly without meshing, or point based rendering for foam.
You can find more information here about this, including developer blog posts and youtube videos to get your started:
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/3ds-max-2018-update-3-released-fluids-in-3ds-max/td-p/7417759
Best Regards,
Alfred
3ds Max 2018 Update 3 is available to subscribers on their Autodesk Accounts page. After logging on, go to All Products & Services > 3ds Max > 2018 Downloads > Updates & Add-ons.
3ds Max 2018 Update 3 Release notes:
http://up.autodesk.com/2018/3DSMAX/3dsMax2018.3_Update_Readme_enu.html
Martin Coven’s blog post about Fluids:
https://area.autodesk.com/blogs/the-3ds-max-blog/introducing-3ds-max-2018-update-3/
Autodesk Area Forums Announcement:
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/3ds-max-2018-update-3-released-fluids-in-3ds-max/td-p/7417759
YouTube video: Max Fluids Part 1: Basic Setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=ZQGgKBr9YIs
YouTube video: Max Fluids Part 2: Pouring Chocolate with an Animated Emitter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpboZ9-_ahM
I was really excited to get to work on this feature, so glad to see it finally going live!
We hope you all enjoy it. If there are any questions, I’d be happy to answer what I can, and there is a forum topic related to 2018.3 in the link below. Can’t wait to see what our users do with this. 🙂
https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-forum/3ds-max-2018-3-includes-fluids-and-more/m-p/7417859/highlight/false#M146484
Good addition, althought BiFrost has been useless in Maya since it´s first implementation, having always problems with weird volumes behaviours, being not controlable at all, etc… goor for big masses of water or for small “out of control” liquids (AKA puring liquids on or over things), but that is where it ends it´s usability.
Maybe all this has been solved since the latest time I tested this…
But in any case, it´s a good addition, a bit late to the party for us, but I´m happy max users can leverage at least a small part of liquid simulations inside max.
Cheers!
Nice update! thanks guys …
Thus looks like a great update guys, thanks!
Indeed great update, havnt expected Bifrost at all.
BTW does anyone know if new version of Arnold renders hairs from Ornatrix ?
Not yet, but it’s high up on our TODO list
Great addtion (Bifrost)! Did not expect it so soon. Can’t wait until we have some sort of node based editor for Bifrost (like Naiad or Houdini).
Please clarify…is this available to those one maintenance (perpetual) or just renters.
This has been a big deal for me so I’m willing to try it…never used Bifrost…how does it compare to what I have in Houdini?
It’s available to both (rental and maintenance). I’m on maintenance and already downloaded it from my account. But of course you only get access to it if you have an active contract.
Very nice !
Not for me but it shows that 3ds Max is far from dying, well done !
Now drop the forced subscription and we’ll be a happy family again. 🙂
WTF… This is soo weird, I was just thinking about FX in Max a few days ago and I had NO idea this was coming, my exact thought was this:
Well, we’ll never get to see Bifrost in Max, that’s for sure, I hope they at least are still working on the PFlow 2.0…
Again, sooo weird and such a great, unexpected news, and so fast after the previous update, thank you everyone at Max’s team(cough &adsk), keep up the great job guys.
Yeah – – I’m in a weird emotional roller coaster:
Max goes rental – – “I’ll never go rental, but I’ll keep my perpetual as long as I can as I move toward 100% Houdini”
FinalRender teases – – “Hmm…maybe I need to stay at least partially on Max because I love fR”
FinalRender Announces Rental Only – – “F%^# both of them – I’m going 100% Houdini
This – – “Well, I’m done with fR, but MAYBE I’ll stay with Max for some things…”
It’s still going to be tough, because after griping for YEARS about fluids I finally gave up and got Houdini Indie, so even I don’t know yet if this is too little, too late, but it indicates the DEV team still has some focus on the customer, despite what the guys in Finance are up to.
Bifrost has nothing against Houdini! I had high hopes when in came to Maya but in vain.
-No RBD/Cloth/Aero interaction
-No flow control at all
-No colour grid so you cant mix colours
-Viscosity not per object but across whole container so you cant mix honey and water for instance
– No VEX coding
list can goes on..
you are right with all things Fluids doesnt have right now. But has a strong benefit over houdini, and is simplicity.
You dont need to learn a complex new software to do fluids, you dont need to go out of max. Fluids right now can be used for some simple FX work, but can be used for any motiongraphics artist with 0 experience on fluids, or architects to enrich his renders.
Remember this is the first iteration, more elements will come to make Fluids more suitable for production tasks.
@eloi I don’t think this argument works…I get that all the stuff under the hood in Houdini can be complex because of the raw power and options. But you can go into Houdini and in a few clicks create a sphere then turn it into a fireball, smoke, or a source of water. To get BASIC things going the effort and complexity is about the same…the difference is that Houdini can move beyond those simple basics.
Finally… its a good start! very good update… and it take only 5 years integrate it into 3DS max… good job autodesk! 🙂
but i see no option for perpetual license there anymore… oh right… you are going to be fully cloud company, too bad… 🙁
Oh, i forget.. there is still Houdini with better set up tools and more coming every year, with many license possibilities (free, indie, perpetual, rental/subscription) 🙂 – I really love SideFX company <3
I just must remember to wish every night that AD won't buy SideFX, and I hope that SideFX will grow a lot bigger than Autodesk.. So, hopefully there will be one star in the sky every night. oh.. its bed time.. i mean, wish time…
There’s one falling star… Dear star. Give SideFX company all mighty powers to beat evil Autodesk industry. good night star!
Indeed, let us sing gloria in excelsis deo.
Blessed should be SideFX, bringer of light and defender of the evil darkness incarnated in the form of Autodesk! ***Gloria Patri,maker of HOUDINI***
.
.
..Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you guys?
@Meli
I understand them very well, at this stage there’s a universal distrust and i might add ‘grand hatred’ to the ideal corporate entity which is Autodesk, the likes of which i have never seen coming form any other CG community against any other CG software. So the enemy of my enemy becomes my friend motto starts playing here, they can see where things are heading and they are praying for anybody anywhere to put a pause to that. Unfortunately no amount of upgrades or new features will change Autodesk’s image towards it’s users, for the bullet was already loaded in the gun long ago with overblown perpetual price tags and later shot in the head with rental only (expensive) models.
Frankly I can’t blame any max user for such things.
Meanwhile everyone continues to respect companies such as Pixologic, ChaosGroup, SideFX, Maxon etc..
Come on, it`s a tiny, saturated market. And VFX/Animation is even smaller.These companys will tell you everything to get you as customer shifting over to their products. And of course the will NEVER force subscription on you….for now.
Do you like the idea of not being ablt o have the software installed on your computer and having to work with everything in the cloud… even the software?
SideFX might think it`s good for them now, not forcing subscription because it allows them to fish for frustrated Adsk customers.Does this make them the good ones? Or are they the bad ones because they are preparing the stage behind your back for things to come?
@Meli This argument is laughable. Do you have any proof SideFX are preparing something behind the scenes to change licensing? Or about other companies as you are mentioning? Some people were saying the same years ago, that developers of other major competing 3D applications would go rental when Adsk first started with the move, and it hasn’t happened. If we come back to reality for a moment, the fact remains that Adsk is the only major 3D company trying to force rental only, while the other ones are not. What we see are long-time Adsk customers jumping to Houdini, Blender, Cinema 4D, …
Companies are partying and thanking Adsk for the bad move. It’s made their lives much easier.
@Roger
Do you have any proof SideFX are not preparing something behind the scenes to change licensing?
@Roger
Of course i don`t have any proof. How would that even be possible? My point is simply that there is no such thing as ‘friendly’,’good’ (public traded )companys.They are not your friends. After all they are here to make profit.The will have a good look at Autodesk, and see how their current change of business practise is working out for them. Then they will decide if they will adopt it too.
Trust me, it will happen.
Well said.
Houdini Kool Aids seems to be the strongest one.
Re: Kool Aid — one reason folks are – as you say, drinking the Kool Aid is that SideFx is creating an AWESOME KoolAid, and each year they seem to LEAP ahead with their KoolAid.
If it seems like they have the KoolAid advantage, it’s because Autodesk has comparatively speaking done almost NOTHING with their KoolAid (this latest being a notable exception), and while SideFx makes it an option with their beverage, Autodesk wants everyone to spit out their KoolAid unless they pay every few minutes.
It’s simple guys, the ONLY reason Autodesk gets away with a rental model (for the time being), is because it has decades of near monopoly digging it’s trenches deep into studios established on Autodesk foundations, making it very difficult for them to switch.
Any other company would’ve went suicidal long ago if they introduced only high price rental models such as that of Autodesk.
This is why, as some users have rightly pointed out most other companies will simply start looking at the numbers and compare in relative terms. And so provide the users with options to avoid this path. It’s simple math and business.
Long term customer satisfaction and loyal user base VS temporary greed.
It’s a good step, unfortunately all these building blocks happening on a very shaky foundation of a rental model.
Meanwhile I can’t say some of us are jumping for joy when we have invested Phoenix FD, without a doubt the very best fluid sim for Max and a highly competitive one for any other software.
Our wishes continue to be that one day Autodesk will start paying attention again to character animation tools in Max like it once did in the late 90’s early 2000’s, that is hopefully before we make that full switch to Blender/Houdini combo.
You’re dead right about the neglected Biped system. It was so advanced when it appeared, and developed well for about two years. I’ve been using it for about 15 years, unchanged. Is that correct? I’m impressed by C4D, but I’m still looking for something like Biped. Rigging and retargetting mocap for non technical types.
Geppetto/People Power/whatever it was called seemed to be the next big thing, it seemed to start off as being more of an adaptive animation system (videos shown where a character would sit down in different places depending on where you placed the seat)
By the end of it, it was just a pretty limited crowd system with no room for customisation (e.g. meshes or animation)
Considering the amount of time that was spent on it, it was a complete waste of time IMHO.
I’d forgotten about Gepetto. I was waiting for it to appear as a groundbreaking behavioural animation system, but all we got was that basic crowd thing. Anima 2 is much better than that, and now allows import of custom figures. If only Character studio had remained as a separate plugin….
The reason I brought it up, is for the simple matter of this:
Max has very solid plugins when it comes to VFX and rendering, Vray, Fume, Phoenix Krakatoa etc.
But when it comes to character tools, these are such things that are important to be in the core of a 3d software, while we do get Bones pro to replace the unfortunate skin modifier, both come with their shortcomings still and we still don’t get muscle system in max. Skin FX showed much promise back in the day. They bought the guy off and made him work on a real time engine little care for. Talk about massive mismanagement and bad choice making there.
Character rigging tools are still behind Maya, take for instance lack of proper spline-Ik to start with the basics. A new reaction manager of sort is desperately needed. proper animation layering and better curve editing tools.
An upgrade on cloth tools, Max has excellent cloth tool yet it still runs on a single CPU thread, It’s collision system is still as old as time.
Even with all the plugins combined and invested in, you will still come in shorthanded on some of these basics.
This is what I believe has been the vast shortcoming of max in the recent decade and not FX tools which are readily available as production ready and on perpetual licenses for relatively affordable price tags for any serious user.
Autodesk really has ADD when it comes to features.
Well, as I predicted, bifrost would eventually make it to 3dsMax, and some users would still find something to complain about.
How did I know bifrost was coming to Max? – while I’m not privy to the inner workings of the development team, I based my judgement on some of the recent Max features that were initially exclusive to Maya. From Opensubdiv, alembic support, all the various new skinning methods e.t.c.
Now for all those critizing Autodesk for the rrntal model, while I don’t support this, as long it’s successful for Adobe & Autodesk, it’s naive to believe other companies won’t follow suit.
I think Bifrost arriving is great. I give them all kinds of credit for it, since it would be kind of ridiculous as one of the guys who posted the feature request to not respect the effort. But it certainly doesn’t eliminate the rental/cloud issue, and it’s VERY reasonable to worry about it as it enters the sea of Gepetto, Biped, etc…as features that arrive and then languish.
OT but if Foundry bought SOFTIMAGE early enough, 3D industry will be so much different now. Why… Why….
Then Softimage would have been priced at 5-6k, Softimage-X would be 10k and Softimage studio 15k 🙂 People would still complain no matter what. Just got one of the most requested features with one of the best fluid solvers out there and ppl changes the topic to pricing now. I am sorry, but compared to Houdini, 3ds max price is much cheaper. Most people forget that Houdini Indie, priced just $200 is for INDIE only! So studios cannot use it if they have more than 100k revenue… So for them, the price of Houdini actually is 7k or 5k yearly rental… which is 2 and a half times more than 3ds max…
I agree that Autodesk should make some kind of Indie offer but for studios, Houdini is actually soooo much more expensive…
And… each sim license is $800/YEAR and RENTAL ONLY.
2 sim rental cost is more expensive than the 3dsMax rental cost.
Just to be clear Houdini Core rents for $2k a year at a large studio and Houdini FX rents for $5k and most liceses at a big studio would be Core licenses. Prices are reduced for smaller companies and Indies.
With Houdini, you can also buy permanent licenses that never expire and keep them current with maintenance contracts which in the long-run saves money over renting.
A big studio that buys a permanent license of Houdini Core can opt for an optional maintenance contract that is currently $1.5k a year which is what it costs to rent 3ds max for a year.
Price information from SideFX:
https://www.sidefx.com/buy/#houdini3
You guys using Indie/Core price when you talk about price.
You guys using Fx when you talk about features.
Creat.
Houdini Core… What would you do with that?
“Prices are reduced for smaller companies” is $4,495 + $2,495 which is limnted to only 4 per studio.
Studio version is $6,995 + $3,995/year.
for network silumation, it is $795/yea.
No matter how much you twist, Houdini is the most expentive DCC to maintain.
Comparing the prices of Houdini and Max maybe is not so easy. By the way…you don´t need to quip your whole studio with FX licenses.
“Houdini Core… What would you do with that?” Houdini core is extremely powerful. You can process/render all your sim data which is generated by FX Versions. You have all the power of SOPs / Hair and Fur ( even with dynamics ) etc. You can also use all your digital Assets including Dynamics. VEX / Volumes…Character Tools / Terrain Tools….
Of course at first glance Houdini FX seems expensive. But remember you have unlimited render licenses! You don´t need Krakatoa, Realflow, Thinking particles, Multiscatter, Fume FX etc….if you want to compare it fair you have to put all your plugin costs on top of your 3ds Max price.
Jon
In theory, what you said sounds good.
In reality?
Almost all Houdini artist want to so cool FX. It is extremely hard to find even lighters. Character animation i Houdini? Good luck to find an animator who can animate in Houdini.
Unlimited Mantra rendering. Good.
But, it is slow. Paying VRay is cheaper if you consider overall cost.
Also to do the proper rendering, you usually need to bake geo and generaite IFD before render which requires engine license. Engine is rental only and $800/Year.
3dsMax plusgin cost? Most 3dsMax pllugins doesn’t require maintermance. You pay updrade every few years. Let’s see FumeFX. For 2 years, I only neede to pay $845 and I get 2 sim lic. Houdini? You pay $1600/year only for network sim. YOu also make it lokke it I have to eveysingle plugins. But, nowadays, I don’t need plugin for most of shots. BTW, you don;t need realflow anynore.
Just to confirm, update 3 also includes the stuff from update 2 and 1, correct? I don’t need to install all 3?
@neil: Each update includes the previous updates and all fixed defects for that major release (2018). So you only need Update 3…
I was asking myself that question when I recently upgraded my workstation. Thanks for clearing that up, Kelly!