Adobe acquires Allegorithmic
Adobe has announced the acquisition of Allegorithmic – including Substance Designer, Substance Painter and Substance Source – for an undisclosed sum. It is expected that Allegorithmic’s current employees will stay on at Adobe.
Substance was already integrated to varying degrees with Adobe products including Adobe Dimension and Adobe Capture. It is expected that this acquisition will further embed the tools across the Creative Suite including Photoshop, After Effects and Project Aero, their recent AR Content creation tools, in addition to continued development as a “flagship product” according to Allegorithmic’s Sebastien Deguy.
Adobe says there are no plans at present to change offering or pricing for algorithmic customers and according to a post on Allegorithmic’s blog, “when it comes to licensing, nothing changes for now. Your current licenses will continue running and getting updates. As we join the Adobe family, we will also unveil new and more flexible subscription offers in the coming months”. The crucial phrase of both these phrases are “for now” and “at present”. The long term plans are not yet known.
For more information about this announcement, see this Blog Post by Adobe, the Allegorithmic Blog Post, a statement by Allegorithmic founder Sebastien Deguy and an FAQ with more details about how this affects users.
Source: Michael Sokolov
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Nonononononoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Bollocks. Fucking Adobe. That’s the end of my using Substance Painter then.
oh dear, how sad, nevermind…I’m not doing ‘rental software’
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/
Oh no……..
nOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo.. shiittt….!!! damn.
“Adobe says there are no plans at present to change offering or pricing for algorithmic customers “…. “. The long term plans are not yet known. ” – it will be subscription only. They know it and they have plans already but they want to keep their current customers. Same thing happend when Chaos bought Corona (they said nothing will change – but what happened -> subscription only). Same thing happened when Autodesk bought Arnold – they said that nothing will change but everything changed: subscription only. What will most likely happen now to Substance family: subscription only. 🙁
Time to go back Mari and Modo and hope big updates for Bodypaint3D/C4D. I also hope that Blender, Lightwave, 3D-Coat, ZBrush and HoudiniFX will make big updates for texturing tools and no subscrption only prices. Well blender will be most likely always option wihtout fear to go subscription only model.
The box license is still listed in the corona website, it says contact, but at least its listed.
You know for a fact that you cannot acquire a box license?
Cheers!
Only for 3DS max. And they gonna remove box license or at least thats what i have heard.
So there is no C4D boxed version just like VrayForC4D which is now owned by chaos group.
It´s a pity… only ubs software is a big NONO
I called them directly early last year about buying the box license and was told that they are not selling them.
That´s a pity and a shame, they should be clear about that fact, they lost some clearness, transparency and fairness, not because they are not selling box licenses, because they want to pretend they do so they don´t get hit by the massive movement against rental only products.
What a shame, I´m very disappointed.
Cheers.
Yup. That is bull*hit marketing – they are just trying to look good company but they are lying about box license. I was also surprised when i heard that box license isn’t available anymore (hasn’t been long time – if i understood right). But still their website says “box license” – and because its not available (they are not selling it) its a lie imo. Much worst than adobe or autodesk which are also worst companies imo.
Do you really believe that Foundry will not go for rental-only?
Nope, they will go rental only… there was some information around regarding that some time ago…
nooooOOoooo! Everything go rental only :/
How about Houdini? How about blender? How about DaVinci Resolve or HitFilm?
Oh Gawd…..
no no no
nooooooooooooo
this is really sad…
Now I have to look for alternatives to substance designer/painter (as I did with Photoshop), but there are none…
Maybe Blender guys can come up with something
One thing is clear, I will not pay a cent to Adobe.
Try Affinity Photo This is not Yet as strong as Photoshop, but about 95% .. Workflow is slick, nearly as strong as Photoshop… try it out.. also interface and shortcuts are comparable..
Agree.
God Bless us All…
Im Very very dissapointed with Allegorithmic I dont know if I want to continue using their software ever again maybe I will try Quixel Suite from now on hopefully they will not go this route either
Quixel? do you mean the ones that released Suite 2.0 and never really do anything after 2015? or the ones who focus on the “Mixer” like if texturing for production is only about Paint, mask & sculpt and blending materials? Quixel is a ‘scan’ company, not a texturing software company. Allegorithmic painter/designer vs Quixel? just nothing to compare.
I find it strange how some people talk about ‘switching’ so easily. did you even buy these products or are you one of those special non-costumers that can easily switch because money is not a problem?
Good luck with quixel suite, I could never get along with it’s clunkyness. Apparently they’re working on feeding the quixel suite functionality into their standalone app ‘mixer’ but it seems to be taking a while.
Wasn´t Quixel something that works exclusively with Photoshop? so… Adobe anyways? (I´m not sure right now)
Cheers
Yes but while making a plugin for Pshop was relatively straightforward, I think they realised Photoshop was weighing them down workflow and performance-wise. Unfortunately creating a fully fledged software package seems to be much more challenging. In the meantime Quixel seem to be relying on their megascans business to span the gap. Personally I suspect Adobe noticed their revenue from 3d artists shrink as Quixel was overshadowed by substance. So they made the logical move and now they have us in a pincer movement.
Только матерное на языке…
Back to Mari I guess
well… at least is not autodesk
lol why?
at least Autodesk works with studios around the world, Adobe? this sounds like a desperate move because people rarely care anymore about photoshop more and other Adobe products. More and more people switch to Alternatives on all their suite.
For example, Autodesk keeps doing great things with Arnold and it is cheaper now that it was before the acquisition, and they are preparing everything for the Arnold GPU.
I don’t know how a company that could never do anything decent in 3D in photoshop, and why nobody even tried to use it, since it is still the worst 3D implementation, somehow will do a better job than Autodesk on the 3D world. Even Maya 2019 which is bad mouthed by some clueless people is a great release and now they got playback cache out of the way and working great, they can keep focusing on other new features and improve existing ones.
You just love joining the Autodesk hatewagon, yet, most people who talk crap about Autodesk probably don’t even really work professionally, and I even wonder if they have done 3D in their lives if all they do is blame Autodesk for not bringing 1000 features, when they probably don’t even know 2% of Maya or 3dsmax, their features and and how hey work.
I’m heartbroken 🙁 Allegorithmic was THE company I realy liked…the guys, their spirit, the software…and of course it’s the end of perpetual licenses.
And after reading the FAQ and the blog post, I’m feeling even more sad, and additionally sick of the pompous marketing-speech, the sneaky “Nothing will change [(for now, but soon we announce the new subscrition offers)]”.
Just shows that everybody has his price.
…so sick, frustrated, angry and disappointed…and already annoyed of the soon-to-come Adobe-Mail about how happy they are that I’m their customer now and that they have a great new subscrition offer for me.
(Edited: fixed a typo)
Few years ago when deciding to devote to their tools, I thought to myself – it’s a small company worth supporting, nothing bad in their subscription model, at very least I can keep the software once it runs out! Well guess that’s about to change, can’t wait to be locked out of software that i once purchased!
Also you don’t use SP all day as you might use PS. Average asset creating artist is modeling most of the time with just few days reserved for texturing. This roughly translates to something like 3 weeks to model, 3 days to texture for which you’ll be paying 20$* a month, 30$* for SP+Designer (wild guess). You’re paying for nothing most of the time. Also too bad if your indie or a freelancer with varying project. One who might use it 2 weeks a month and then not use it for 2 months at all such as when not working with realtime asset(as SP pretty much requires HP, LP). If one would be paying rental for time not using it then it’s same as wiping arse with money which arguably would be more beneficial use of it. By their logics why shouldn’t Adobe pay users for taking 2GB of my space while not being in use? I would understand if QUIXEL would be acquired as it requires PS anyway. Why this? As if it was hard to predict @CFO who sold out. Charm users with mantra that you’re for artists with all these friendly pricing models, development, innovation and then this! Couldn’t envision that reaction? Really? Enjoy your money. Only lesson learned here is to align and support FOSS, at least they can’t sell out.
When you lose the respect you have for a company overnight…
Let’s be… cautiously optimistic. Adobe bought Mixamo and yeah they made it objectively worse but everything except Fuse is still free. That said, I just got everything moved over from CC (Premiere to DaVinci, Photoshop to Affinity Photo, Illustrator to Affinity Designer) and there’s no way in hell I’m putting my hand back in the subscription software bear trap.
Well this is terrible news to hear.
shit! imagine, adobe going to implement substance painter in to photoshop. oh my god! 😉
Looks like I ll be sticking to 3D coat a bit longer
What alternatives there is:
Mari? Modo? BodyPaint3D/C4D? 3D-Coat? ZBrush? Blender?
And quick google results:
Shadermap? ArmorPaint? Pixaflux? KnaldTech? Pixplant? AwesomeBump? Shader Forge? Quixel (but it needs photoshop, no!)?
Nevercenter should make new software – or add PBR texturing / shading for Silo. Or marmoset PBR painter.
Maybe its easier to stop cgi right now. Everyhting will be rental in future so whats the point to look alternatives? Goodbye CGI.. hm. that rhymes? I’m gonna be song writer and artist may rental my lyrics in future->
Have to say since Marmoset added their baking tools maybe they would be an interesting team to move into this direction. They’re certainly talented guys. Having said that, the nice thing about Marmoset is its lean efficient feel and adding texturing would risk swamping that..
F*ck. F*CK F*CK! What the F*CK! How much money did Adobe wave in the face of the Allegorithmic CEO? F*CK! How can anybody sell their company out to Adobe or Autodesk! They just want software patents and then will slowly let the acquired software rot to dust under their shitty subscription-only and Adobe-cloud-account-mandatory dictatorship. F*CK!!!
And I just renewed my annual license in December. DAMN! Next time I’ll let it expire and keep using my older versions D8<
I hear ya, same situation here. Still, I was happily chugging along with my old painter license for a couple of years and could have lived with it another couple. So after November when my maintenance ends that will likely be it. I worry for the Substance team long-term..
I use linux. ( modo 10 , krita and substance painter ). I’m sure that Adobe’s wonderful support of linux will continue and that everything will be fine.
What is everyone worrying about? Sure Adobe has a history of buying software, screwing around with the interface and then abandoning the software letting it gather dust so all the faithful artists who need the tools wait in hope that one day the software will return again only to read a post somewhere that Adobe made it EOL quietly. Oh yeah, this does suck! Age of monopolies screw over artists who need tools to create.
The only satisfying effect this news brings to me is reading all the comments on Allegorithmic founder Sebastian Deguy’s overly enthusiastic blog post
https://medium.com/@sebastien.deguy/https-medium-com-sebastien-deguy-my-peter-jackson-moment-7dd64ba1d1f1
A fully earned response IMHO
He has hidden the responses now…
“Subscriptions are restrictive and often make you pay more than you should in the long run.”
http://community.foundry.com/discuss/post/1157956/content/111086
Substance is nice, but where they’re good at is marketing, most of the stuff they showed was done in Zbrush by great artists (the models).
Zbrush is still around and independant, and I believe the painting is better for organic stuff, if they improve their layers it will be great.
GO ZBRUSH ! GO BLENDER ! GO 3D COAT !
Folks, we should really stop investing into those shitty companies. Blender is getting real badass. Their funding campaign is underway. ArmorPaint is also slowly but surely getting there!
So, are you all freelance? I´m employed, my company pays for all software and I couldn´t care less if these are rental or not…;)
That being said: You can get Mudbox for 10 bucks a month and pay as you need it.
It has full support of udims (unlike Substance painter) and I can just recommend it for High quality assets.
Again, I might be in a comfy position, but I still don´t get the outrage about subscriptions. What about Netflix? Does anyone own a permanent license for netflix? Sure, its a wonky comparison, since noone honestly can say they NEEED it for their work, but still.
What about the ultimate rental desaster…paying rent for you appartment?
Its the way of capitalism, you wanna have the benefits of it, you have to pay the price…
Yes… great features like the egg spline in 3ds max are realy worth a subscription arnt they ?
it is a trap for sure, becaus the big companys, like adobe and Autodesk look at their shareholder values and not at the progress of features, stability and usability . so if they are unsure if they should develope now usefull stuff, they rather would push minor features to at last leave you the hope, it will devellope.
The real Problem behind this devellopement is, that all software when it enters a mature state, will lack of real new features.. its the usual nature of diminishing returns on investment… to get at last a minor quality improvement or feature improvement, the amount of work you have to put into this aproach is rising, at last exponentially..
this said, all Devellopers at the end of the road would get bankrupt, if no one would by their next software, because theres nothing new on the horizon that possibly could be implemented..
But i wouldnt say we are allready there.. there still is much room for improvement.. just have a look at Blenders phantastic enhanced realtime viewport, that ckick ass. overthrows, the look and feel of Autodesk Maya and also 3ds max. (Yes i know in other areas, blender is far behind…)
But you see theres much to improve also in subscripton softwara as Autodesk and Adobe, and you can be sure… they will spread their ideas and improvements rare and wisely, knowing, that the road for real great ideas to devellop gets more difficulat year by year… from a companys viewpoint, its just logical, to slow down developement just enough, to be able to earn in the long run, as much as possible.
Why are you comparing Mudbox with SP? Different class of product. Subscription model basically stops software progress – all there is left is a small team of developers to ensure the software does not become obsolete; also some small features that do not shift the software paradigm and are only to keep the status quo. This is a preface to software product decay. Software packages like 3DSMax, Maya and even Substance Painter (no nodes) have obsolete architecture and in a long term are doomed, if the owners do not invest much at some point in experimental dev branches.
Comparing to rental apartment, car or even Netflix is quite good indeed: you will pay and pay but there will be no version 2 from your appartment or your car or your movie which you watched – you might watch same movie for 10times but you might pay from service for 1000x more what you would pay for that one movie.
But there are options: you can buy or rent appartment/house if you can (if you have money enough – thats why there is options). Also most of tools are possible rent or buy. Just like car – you can rent or buy. If you buy you can use it as many times as you want / need and you can upgrade it if you need but there is no must. If you rent then you will pay what ever happens – most likely software developers will make some small updates just to create illusion that you aren’t paying from nothing but if it would be paid upgrade you would say “thats not upgrade – thats nothing – why should i support 0 development”. With rental only you can’t vote with your vollet – you can’t say is development going in right direction. So its bad comparsion to appartment or netflix. THere is no benefits from rental – especially when there is no options to choose: buy / rent. I think good company would offer both – because users have different needs and i think that rental only option will not give benefits because you can’t vote from upgrades – you can’t give message to company that are they going in right direction – now they are just milking money to shareholders obviously.
Well. I´m not saying I´m happy about everything. I also love the support I get from slightly smaller companies, I love chaosgroup for what they do.
And sure, I´m mad at a lot of things that don´t get fixed and I´m mad because I don´t get certain features I want.
But I still think that this endless complaining about rental models isn´t gonna get us anywhere.
They are not going away, because they make more sense for the developers.
Look at any other industry and see how the work…whenever a model is successful, everyone will adapt to that model.
And when too many customers don´t like it, they will adapt to something else.
And since that isn´t happening, I guess most customers DON`T CARE.
But I´m also just getting involved here, because the culture of complaining is just annoying me.
And Yes, you can compare mudbox to substance in a way that you can do one thing (texturing) with mudbox you can also do with substance PAINTER (texturing). And sure, the one can do other things the other can´t.
But its the same problem everywhere: I always wish one sofware could do what another couldn´t and vice versa and there probably will never be the one to rule them all…
And to come back once more to the crappy comparison I made…
There is wisdom in it, if you broaden your view: I cant vote with my wallet when it comes to rent?
Why not? I can just rent another appartment!
Of course I would prefer NOT to have to pay every month, but if I can´t afford to buy it, then thats just it.
And if I wanted to BUY a sofware in the same way as I buy a house, I would have to either:
1. Pay it off for a long long time, until I finally own it, because houses are f ing expensive (as is software development) and…
2. Fix everything that gets broken with my own money (aka do all the bugfixes myself)
Not quite as dumb as a comparison as I thought it would be…;)
Usually when you buy a new house it *should* be bug-free, or developer should fix it for free. And you have a warranty for hidden “bugs”. So after some time you usually pay for maintenance only, not bugfixes.
This somehow doesn’t work with software development…
Now I just hope Pixologic or Blender come up with a solution to replace substance!!!!
There already is and it’s called 3dcoat in fact it is a lot better…. It just lacks a fleshed out material library.
… Which ironically is available on subscription…
You mean that there is a ready-to-use material library for 3d coat?
Can you share the link if that is the case please? It is one of the most important things about substance.
The subscription to a library makes sense because when you stop paying for it you get to keep the materials you have downloaded, so not a problem, there is an actual service with an actual benefit that you get to keep 🙂
Cheers.
Just go to 3dcoat.com
https://armorpaint.org/
What I care mostly about, will the Substance software be covered by the CC subscription? If yes, then I’m OK with that :/
Fuse and mixamo covered by subscription. And both had not advanced since Adobe’s acquisition. Mixmo features were removed and Fuse still in Beta and gone no where.
Liked how substance was becoming better. Now nothing stops it from falling into that dead zone of Adobe software.
Anyone feel like we should form a slack or discord and see if we can figure a way of gofund me or some other way to become an massive active supporter as a group of an open source project and a commercial project to get the features we need and get some stability in our lives with our tools? Lol, it works for AARP to get discounts and a voting block and the UAW, why not us the digital artist?
I know very idealistic and dreamy thinking, but if we just sit back and watch all our tools get gobbled up by hungry giants, well, our lives will continue to suck ever few years.
We invest so much time and heart into our tools yet have no say in their fait. Buying/subscribing to a tool use to support that company, reward them with our money and loyalty. Give us a little piece of mind that the company won’t disappear. Now what do we get back for our dollars and time invested? How much extinct software have you invested in over your life time as an artist? Or if not $ then how much time in software that no longer exist?
Buying and being supportive of a digital tool isn’t enough anymore. (Again idealistic, but not illogical).
Because in our world there is something that people call “industry standard”… and hence a big amount of artists don´t think that others tools have real value… and usually artist are emotionally attached to the main tools they use because they have dedicated so many hours to learn and work with them that in the end it´s a pain to begin using a different one… at least for juniors.
Seniors usually think in a different way because they had to shift so many times from one tool to another that they don´t care… if it works it works… but again… the ghost of “industry standard”, so it´s hard to get an effort from someone that don´t have any interest in someething that is not an “industry standard”, the only way is to actually create a project that slowly grows and catch the big ones and demonstrate that it can become the “industry standard”, and then people start to belive and support it, not everyone, just some.
My 2 cents.
But the idea is not bad, Blender is one project that can be supported and that wants to create a proper environment similar to Substance Painter, but it won´t happen tomorrow of course, but is one of their targets in conjunction with Everything Nodes and Animation 2020.
Cheers!
But tools become industry standard when they’re exceptionally good at certain tasks. Junior or Senior, if a tool can potentially save you hours of work you’ll logically make the switch from you main tool regardless of the hours you’ve put into it.
MentalRay was once an industry standard renderer, but it was overthrown by the faster, more user-friendly Vray. Substance Painter was only just released in 2014 and now it’s become the industry standard for texture painting and that’s because it’s arguably the best at what it does. It’s a similar story with tools like Zbrush and Marvelous Designer. Apps become industry standard for genuine reasons other than sentiments.
“more user-friendly Vray” LOL
Faster – yes, more realistic – sure. But user-friendly?! Vray 2.x has the *worst* UX among all renderers.
When I mentioned faster and more user-friendly, clearly I was talking in relation to MentalRay.
Yes, I understand that. MentalRay was much easier and less complicated than Vray 2.x.
I know some people that can argue with you that the best software for texture painting is Mari and that Substance is just for low/medium quality productions and/or videogames.
It´s Mari an industry standard?
You say Marvelous Designer is an industry standard, for what industry? I can say that while I agree it is the best cloth simulation software out there, there are many industries that are not using it or that barely uses it, that is why I don´t like the term “industry standard” because you could say that marvelous designer is an standard in feature film productions, I don´t know, it may be, but for example, can you say it´s a standard in small production shops? specially with the price it has, because the “low” price is for lone artists, this is from their site:
“Personal Licenses are strictly for ‘individual’ users. All enterprises (film studios, gaming companies, etc.) are prohibited from using Personal Licenses.”
So even freelancers cannot use their personal licenses, the studio must provide the enterprise license which cost is 6000€ for a perpetual license or 1700€ / year for a rental one, and small/medium shops usually do different types of projects, so I doubt the cost of that is justified, unless someone breaks the license and use the work produced with a personal license, which I hope it´s´not the case for the app to become the “industry standard”.
And while I agree with this:
“Junior or Senior, if a tool can potentially save you hours of work you’ll logically make the switch from you main tool regardless of the hours you’ve put into it.”
A Junior will not make the shift easily, they are reticent in general to learn new things that are out of their main package and they, in fact, are the bigger believers in “industry standard” marketing, they think that no matter if they are good animators… if they don´t animate in Maya they won´t be hired because Maya is the “industry standard” for animation… but when you speak to animation directors or leads knowing Maya is not the most important thing… it´s knowing how to animation
Now a senior can be also reticent to make the shift because even if a modeller suspect that could do things faster with Blender that modeller will find lots of excuses like that “industry standard” unless there is someone that goes in front of him and demonstrates that EVERYTHING that he does can be done faster in Blender (bear in mind I use Blender as an example, change it with Catia3D or Spaghetti 4.0), because change it´s not easy, not because it´s hard to learn new software but because it´s hard go out of the comfort zone, and a person that is working in his comfortable table, that received money each month and no one is pressing… why make the change?
And I found this way of thinking in a lot of artists working as permanent hired artists, and in the end they benefit the “industry standard”, I´m sorry but I don´t believe in the “industry standard” concepto, I believe that a senior modeller should be able to model in Maya, Max, Blender or whatever unless the workflow is COMPLETELY different, and in that case that modeller should be able to adapt in days, not months, and even in the case of a modeller… who cares in what software do you model if you deliver a high quality piece of work in the end?
And the same goes with materials, with one exception, being able to tune up those materials in the fastest way possible is something good, but again… ask Mari artists about Substance and it´s performance working with 16k textures… that is IF substance supports 16k or bigger textures (it does not) AND if it supports the “industry standard” way of doing UV´s, UDIM.
So in the end, an app that do things in a magnificently awesome way can or cannot be the “industry standard” and nowadays “industry standard” is not synonym of being the most powerful package out there, but rather a synonym of people being afraid of not being hired if they don`t know “that” package, like Character modellers, they are afraid that if they don´t know Zbrush they won´t be hired.. come one! you may need to adapt IF in the company Zbrush it´s their package, but what is valued is their sense of modelling, of anatomy, of taste, attention to detail, etc…
The “industry standard” is a fallacy that came pretty handy to Autodesk since the phagocytized EVERY major package in the 3D animation and visualization industry, being Maya and Softimage mainly + various plugins and other things.
But this will change, do you prefer to pay 10 bucks/month for a striped down version of Maya or will you se Blender for free for your indy studio?
And when indy studios start to realize (they are already doing it) that Blender is far better than Maya, not just because the price but because a lot of other things… will Maya still be “industry standard” because 4 “big companies” still use it? and will those artist be afraid of not being hired in indy/medium studios when Maya stops being the most used app in that kind of industry? and then what will they do? study themselves to work in those 4 big companies or study to work in small/madium companies? (Agian, I say Blender but change it for any other app you think that can make Maya obsolete in many ways).
I think those are valid questions that make the “industry standard” a bit of a big fallacy that has grown up to a point that is something people “believes” in, but it´s not something very useful IMO.
With all this said I think Substance Painter is an astonishing piece of software, and it´s apity that if falls in Adobe hands, as many other said, Adobe usually kills pacakges they acquire, and as I myself said, adobe kills innovation, they do research but how many years pass until you see any real innovation? A LOT and just the tiny bit needed to “justify” that they innovate… they don´t, becasue they don´t need to.
Cheers.
I thought all the shit news was in the world news now its its here as well.
Ok, what the hell is with all of you and Adobe bashing?
You know that in the movie industry people work on Adobe, Autodesk and Nuke, right?
Compared to them, Adobe is practically free, charging €700 per year for ALL of their software, and the innovations and improvements with each release are efing ground breaking compared to Nuke or 3dsMax. With every new release at least one new feature of AE joins my group of everyday techniques. When was the last time you thought “oh, cool” looking at new features of Max or Nuke? (I’m hearing it’s similar for Maya, but I don’t use it that often so I have no opinion).
Sure Blender has much faster development and waaaaaaaay better community, but you know what? Nobody is using Blender in the professional market – good luck trying to convince your studio or their clients for that matter, that Blender is good enough for their project – I gave up and use Blender in secret whenever it’s beneficial for me.
What I’m trying to say that Substance could have ended waaaay worse than with Adobe – Autodesk was the obvious candidate and look at their track record: XSI, Mudbox, Naiad, Stingray – all dead.
People say Adobe killed Mixamo/Fuse, no it didn’t, it’s just not getting further developed – by its own damn team. It stopped being developed about a year before Adobe bought it, this aquisition was a God send for Mixamo since without it they probably wouldn’t have the money to keep the servers going.
True it’s a weird choice for Adobe, since they don’t give a ff about 3D, but they are probably following the money, and since they don’t care about 3D software, they buy it.
Fine with me, if Substance is going to be covered by CC subscription fee, even better – every studio you’re going to enter in the world that has Adobe (and they all do) will automatically have the Substance suite, you’ll just have it waiting for you, no need to ask for a license, no need explaining what it actually is – good God I’m not going to miss that :/
If someone bashing Adobe it doesn’t meant they are happy with Autodesk, Foundry or any other company. All Adobe software is horrible and outdated, the only reason people in the industry use it because there is no alternatives. And they know that therefore they charging €700 per year for ALL of their shitty software.
“the innovations and improvements with each release are efing ground breaking”
What innovations?
The problem with Adobe is the same with Autodesk, with Adobe the price has never been the problem, but the lack of motivation to properly implement innovation is the result of a licensing model where the user can´t do anything regardless if the new features are good or not, if the new features affects them or not… in fact can´t do anything if there are NO new features!
Several purchased packages have died in hand of Adobe, just like Autodesk, and the fear here are thre IMO:
1.- Subscription only model where you cannot keep working with the latest version you paid for without having to pay a penny more
2.- Lack of innovation or slow innovation as Adobe has demonstrated as his flag (don´t tell me that purchagins a pupeteer plugin for after effects is innovation when everyone in the 3d industry has been waiting for proper deep compositing support, a proper 3d environment support, a proper new particle system for motion graphics, a good denoiser… and… let´s not forget MULTITHREADING! that was removed from AE and now there is no multithreaded renderer.
3.- That substance will be integrated in the montruous CC licensing environment with all the problems it has, that GUI will be “AdobeED” with all the slowness it means… etc..
This is just my view of how integrating an app inside Adobe will affect that app, but the main thing… rental model only.
And for those of you that thinks that a rental only model does not affect you because your company pais for it, well… if the licenses costs are double or triple as before… do you think that with that money you could have a co-worker to do things better and faster? or that your salary could be a bit higher? Saying that it does not affect you is not knowing how any change in your company can affect you IMO.
Cheers!
I only talk about software I use every day.
“the innovations and improvements with each release are efing ground breaking” – you cut the quote a little short – it said “compared to Nuke or 3dsMax” 😉
Also we now get 3-4 feature updates a year. Previously it was 18 months, so now if you sum up all new features from 4-6 updates that would equate 1 old update – I can’t honestly say that AE or Premiere are evolving slower than they used to :/
Not trying to be smart here, I’m seriously asking, what packages are you thinking about? Flash? Hardly Adobe’s fault, it wasn’t perfect but I’m pretty sure Steve Jobs single handedly killed that one 🙂 SpeedGrade? Never knew any colorist that used it, and thanks to that aquisition we got grading inside Premiere – so I guess that’s a win?
1. True, but I used to upgrade every 2 or 4 versions before. Pretty much had to because with the old software you had trouble opening media from new cameras, not to mention keeping up with delivery formats. It’s basically the same money now for 4 years.
2. Maybe we do different projects, but Adobe to this day has the best support for new video and camera formats, also their 360 vr toolset, though cumbersome and with a learning curve, is the best there is for now. I still haven’t figured out how to do 360 3d video in Nuke so that a shot doesn’t take an entire day :/
You mentioned deep compositing – what do you mean exactly? 3d compositing or using deep data in EXRs? The former – we will never get it, AE is a 2d compositing software, that is why it wipes the floor with other packages when you have a lot of simple shots to do in a short time. Try cleaning up 30 shots a day in Nuke 😉 But you can’t do really complex composits with hundreds of render passes – use Nuke or Fusion for that.
The later – have you used deep data in compositing – it’s a nice idea but impractical. If an HD frame weighs a couple of gigs – trust me, you loose conciousness waiting for previews. Working in Nuke you get used to render times of 30-60 seconds per frame, but in AE? I optimize my comps whenever they drop below 1fps
I do agree with mutithreading, but being a plugin developer myself, I understand why they dropped it – their plan is to offload more work to GPU which should be way faster than MT ever was – they just can’t get their shit together and finally do it :/
3. The substance UI is already pretty close – I doubt they’ll be changing that.
4. Hahaha – I’m you seriously think that if software licenses were cheaper, the studio would pay you more???? Dude, how old are you??? You wouldn’t see a penny of that money. The increased cost is forwarded to the client, which is simple since everyone’s cost have increased, so everyone increases prices for their clients.
In this entire conversation there is only 1 good argument – Blender. It quickly approaches the big league and it’s free with only a hand full of people working on it. That really makes Adobe, Autodesk, Foundry look baaaad 😀
I agree substance could have ended maybe worse than with Adobe. Adobe subscription will open it up to new users. And that is good. Every artist will know its name.
If Substance could have been infused with cash (if that is what they needed) and been left on their own to continue, maybe there would have been more innovation and more products down the pipe. Allegorithmic as a company they could have grown and as an artists we may had benefitted from a refinement of tools and new offerings. Not having enough strong competitors in the market make the big company’s become lazy (they have our $$$ via subscription, what is the need to innovate or do better, we don’t have much any other choices).
To be optimistic, I hope that Substance stays in tact and not parted out, and that the team who created it gets a chance to continue to innovate the tool the way they envisioned.
For Mixamo/Fuse — if a company buys “something” and does nothing with it, it isn’t the previous company’s fault, it’s the new owners fault for lack of advancement.
Remember Faceshift? Great that they got bought by Apple so now we can experience talking poop on an iPhone. Another artist tool that went poof. Nothing stops Adobe from making PBR rendered poop out of Substance 🙂 dismantling the parts of the software to be watered down and shoved next to Photoshops 3D layer.
I don’t think buying a company works like this, they didn’t take all their toys and told them to f off. There are always investors in all companies, and the one that has the most stock, is the owner. No one gets fired automatically. Adobe buys companies because a) they think that their product has a future and will make a lot of money so they want to get in on that, or b) they are interested in some technology and want to put it in one of their software, and buying the company is just cheaper than licensing the tech.
Most of the time the company stays in the exactly same building, and people work like they used to. Just the profits go to the new owner. The new owner has no obligation to make “advancements”, though I imagine he’d encourage them since that would mean more profit?
Mixamo was dead before Adobe bought it, and after that nothing changed. For the life of me I’ve got no clue why they bought it, not for future profits, that’s for sure, so must be the tech. But what tech from Mixamo was Adobe interested in???
The automated rigging? The character editor sucked balls and was even behind the 15 year old Poser. Damn, is Poser still around?
Hah, I didn’t even know Faceshift was bought by Apple, nice one :/
One more thought a positive one 😉
A Photoshop plugin for Substance would be cool, being able to generate a flat surface covered with any substance material right inside PS – would make looking for texture images on google obsolete 🙂
Wow, how does this post get downvotes? You really hate this idea that much???
Ton Roosendaal tweeted regarding Blender 2.8 texturing future:
https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1088096551044632576
Well worth supporting.
I’m kinda surprised with the amount of people who are blender fans, there’s only like 1500 people supporting the blender dev funding, i thought thousands of people used this software
hell i joined for $6 a month, and i don’t even use blender,i just like watching it get better and better every week, it like an investment for the future..
$6 a month people, and we will get a 3d paint program, cheap eh?
Because Blender is cool only when you don’t pay for it 🙂 This is the main problem in this thread, people just don’t get that developing software is a lot of work and the programmers would like to eat – they all want great software that is free, Once a year, maybe, MAYBE, they will donate 10$ for an open source project and immediately tell about it on Facebook – I guess they are feeling pretty generous 😒
Nailed it!
Bear in mind that there are people that instead of being subscribed to the Dev Fund are subscribed to the Blender Cloud, Wich is a different way of supporting Blender, and others are supporting it indirectly like selling material in the Blender Market giving a percentage of the sales to the dev fund.
There are many ways of supporting it, and
Support is steadily increasing because more and more professionals are joining Blender, so they are the ones that can give the better support to Blender 🙂
RIP substance !
Well, like most others in this discussion, i am super unbelievably upset by this acquisition. If I had ANY faith in adobe to not completely destroy this product in under a year, Id be ok with it. Sadly however a company that cant even make their bread and butter applications work smoothly makes me think Substance (suite) is doomed. I expect slow sluggish behavior to be first on their list of screw ups, i mean, illustrator and photoshop run horribly on my titan XP, 32gig ram, i7 5930k computer. This of course will be followed up with an abundance of stupid add on tools no one wants like “bridge”. Over time (my guess about 3 years) the software will be retired or shelved because upper management destroyed the product, gave their developers mixed signals on what to produce, and surrounded the entire product in red tape so thick nothing can be made better by anyone even if they wanted to. They will also have destroyed the user base by specifically NOT listening to their customers who say “i dont want rental”. I personally jumped to subscription models for virtually everything and i cant say i hate it, but i certainly understand why people want options. Sadly, the greedy, short sighted investors don’t see things that way. Anyhow, as far as I can tell, its going to be a short fast road to the bottom. I am already looking for alternatives and will likely keep it only as a backup tool like the rest of adobe suite. Yea, its a tragedy… for us, the dedicated developers who will likely leave and do something else, and for the 3d community at large. Ducking adobe… i swear. What a very sad sad sad bit of news this is.
Huh, dude I work with PS on a Surface Pro 2, stitching 200MP panoramas like every other day and it works fine. Though I do agree with most you wrote, PS not working well on your machine is probably not Adobe’s fault, but your machine’s :/ Your specs are way more than enough for these to work – well maybe besides the Titan as they have been known to be not really good for day to day work – totally tripped up our Resolve installation, and we had some compatibility problems with GPU renderers – basically stay away from Titans. Pick a normal GTX or a Quadro, but Titans seem to be a mix between the two and they either work or they don’t :/
That said, I doubt PS uses much GPU so I don’t thing that Titan is the problem :/
It’s sad but it seems open source is going to be the way to move forward…esp with
innovation. Now if only blender would fix it’s interface.