(Updated) After the public outrage that followed Autodesk’s extensions announcement, the company has reacted stating that it has “heard the concerns of customers” and has decided that current 3DS Max subscription customers who do not own the Creation Suite will also receive the Particle Flow Tools: Box #2 extension (with MassFX integration) no later than October 2012.
Autodesk has announced the release of a subscriber-only 3DS Max 2013 extension that expands the PFlow toolkit.
– MassFX mParticles – Create particle simulations that replicate real-world effects with the
mParticles module for the MassFX system of simulation solvers. With Birth operators optimized
for MassFX simulations, a preset flow for easier initial setup, and two easy-to-use modifiers that
enable particles to affect standard mesh objects.
– Advanced Data Manipulation – Create customized, purpose-built Particle Flow tools with the
versatile Advanced Data Manipulation toolset. It is now possible to combine up to 27 different suboperators to easily create their own event-driven Data Operators and save results as presets, or as standard actions in the Particle View
depot
– Cache Disk and Cache Selective – The new Cache Disk operator offers the ability to precalculate
and store Particle Flow simulations on the hard disk, separate from the 3DS Max scene file for faster iteration. The Cache Selective operator enables you to cache only
certain types of Particle Flow data
The extensions are available to subscription customers and controversially mParticles and the data management toolset are available to Creation Suite customers only. More at Autodesk.
Let not forget to mention the clever Autodesk move to restrict the goodies to SUITE Owners only. All of the good stuff (mParticles/Data manipulation Particle Flow operators.) is restrictet to suie owners…
Only thing a 3ds Max/3ds Max Design subscriber gets, is “Cache Disk and Cache Selective”
Ooops – seems i missed the last line in the original post… But anyways, this silly step by Autodesk deserves to be mentioned twice 😉
So Box #2 & #3 owners can disregard these news until new work is done only on the suite operators and we have to buy the creation suite to be up to date?
wow.. just wow.. I mean we had to tolerate a lot of nonsense from Autodesk the last years. But this is a totally new level of stupidity.
We´re currently looking into Houdini and C4D for a mid term replacement
of 3dsmax. Houdini looks like a real jewel and there is free personal learning edition.
What a strange move… Would be interesting if they put everything into max 2014 finally OR if they split functionality between SUITE/POOR people in the future…
If anyone is going to siggraph do you think you could go to the Autodesk stand with a baseball bat and beat some sense into them.
“they split functionality between SUITE/POOR people in the future”
poor people is the one who buy 3dsmax at 4200 euros…
For a second, for a millisecond, i have had a naive hope that this is actually what Max2013 was missing on the launch date, and it comes now out with some delay. Everybody would forgive the Egg-Spline. But no….
Why Suite Owners? They have already XSI with Lagoa! This tool-set should be exclusively for Max users only, to compensate the missing particle features…
I can´t belive that this is NOT for the usual subscription user !!!!! But anyway, I am very disapointet. At the start of max 2013 they claim that Oleg is developing some new particle stuff:
Autodesk:
“Note: no new Particle Flow tools are in 3ds Max 2013
“This is a test to see how many read to the bottom of the list! While we did announce a multi-year codevelopment agreement with Orbaz, it was too late to do anything with the 2013 release. We will be revealing details about the situation in the coming months, but for now, do not base your purchasing decisions around anything related to this.
”
And thats it ? Just bring in the 2 year old particle box 2 and 3 ? Why wasn´t this possible from the beginning ? they are available for a long time ! there is nothing new, look at the operators name, is is the same then on the boxes, they just added “massFX” to the name ! is this all Autodesk did the last few moonths ? oh no, tell me that can´t be true, please.
Why does Autodesk punish it’s userbase like this? Every announcement they make seems to be telling the small users to go elsewhere. I would consider the suite, but it’s the increased sub fees that put me off.
I will wait for max 2014, which will probably be announces shortly, but I hope they fix the evaluate hidden objects fault in max 2012, a basic screw up that should never have happened.
So basically we don’t get a recompile of Box #2 and Box#3 and have to pay Autodesk if we want to use it in 2013.
Nice business practices there, and good job on alienating particle flow users who already feel screwed over.
So is this going into Max 2014 or is it only going to be in the ECS for that as well?
They really have lost the plot.
OK, just found out there are going to be updates for 2013 – better late than never.
http://www.orbaz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3654
Thanks for that link and some clarification Steve
It makes clear that 3ds max team does not work at all, they only buy, change name and input, all those awesome plugins developed by really great people, I’d rather prefer those great to cooperate and release their own great 3d software. If this goes like this, it’s definitely better to switch to C4D, Houdini, XSI or Maya.
In a post on CGTalk’s forums Ken Pimentel has responded to feedback from users:
“We are working on the situation.
1. Sub users currently get some pieces of Box3 (some cache operators)
2. ECS users get Box2/3
3. Efforts were made to ensure data interop between those that aren’t on subs and those on subs or that have ECS. We tried in a short period of time, to at least allow data to move around a facility (something you didn’t have before without buying more Pflow box2/3 seats).
As has been described in this thread, Oleg is offering Box2/3 to existing users on his terms. Nothing has been taken away and your choices are not limited.
Oleg is part of a multi-year codevelopment effort and we just got started. You’re going to have to give him a little while to help us sort through all his IP and prioritize what we want to do with it. He’s very busy at this time.
No promises can be made about changing this situation, but some investigations are happening. We’re not permitted to discuss future plans around these things. Sorry.”
Full thread here:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=1064055&page=3&pp=15
hehe.. just in time
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2236&Itemid=66
Some reasonable and good argumentation here:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=6&t=1064055
I am not posting just yet, it would get nasty…IF the toolboxes in their full scale are going to be available for Suite owners only (which barely any of the studios or individuals are) i consider this product dicontinued… I get that Oleg can give out installers to already owners but what about future options to buy it as a plugin? Will people be forced into a suite? PFlow will loose all it’s remaining mojo. Nobody is gonna spend that much extra money for a toolset that was pretty much out of development for almost 4 years……..
My 2 cents.
That’ll teach people to bitch about the egg spline last time around.
Now you get a $49 disk cache plugin for your subs.
This just clarifies that Autodesk no longer considers the 3ds Max product on it’s own as profitable.
Oh no. We own Box 2 and 3. I was just hoping to get rid of the complex licensing Orbaz has put up. I was really looking forward to having this available in standard max, but noooooo. Who uses suits anyway?
Just to note that Ken has posted on cgtalk that subscribers will be getting Box 2 no later than October, but Box 3 will remain for ECS only.
Thanks for the note, Steve. News item updated.
Oh no – thought that subscribers would have both box2 and box3 eventually – why the hell all this restricted licenses and s***. Seems like they just dont care about pflow users at all 🙁
Autodesk decision making follows the same methodology as this…
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103666/idea-balls
The semi U-turn by including Box 2 after all may have quelled the uproar on CGTalk, but I’m not convinced at all, and won’t be renewing my subscription.
It’s still a 2-tier system, and it’s still bundling ancient (in software terms) plugins – Box 3 was released end of 2005, Box 2 was 3 years ago.
These were released because Autodesk abandoned Particle Flow, and people are supposed to be grateful because they’re now bundling one to subscribers, and one to people on an even more expensive subscription?
Autodesk have a history of jacking up prices, such as Combustion (which killed it), Toxik (which killed it)… it doesn’t look good.
@Steve: Except half of the balls say “increase prices” and the other half is a collection of new names for existing plugins. 🙂
@Rotem – I’m expecting them to buy in a plugin to name bought-in plugins.