Autodesk queried on elimination of perpetual licenses at earnings conference
Aug 28, 2014 by CGP Staff
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According to a transcript of a recent Autodesk earnings conference call published at financial site Seeking Alpha, the company’s CEO was asked when perpetual sales might be eliminated. No definitive answer was given, but it was stated that “we’ll talk again a little bit more about this in October what our plans are”.
Another interesting part of the conference is the comparison made between Autodesk and Adobe’s licensing policies (see “while there are certainly similarities between Autodesk and Adobe there’s also a big difference”). More on Seeking Alpha.
Another interesting part of the conference is the comparison made between Autodesk and Adobe’s licensing policies (see “while there are certainly similarities between Autodesk and Adobe there’s also a big difference”). More on Seeking Alpha.
Source: MauricioPC
Yeah… big difference… price…
What would be the value of getting rid of the perpetual license? Currently the perp license for 3ds Max is $3,675 with an upgrade price of $2,575. An annual license is $1,470. It is cheaper to get an annual license every year than a prep license with upgrades every year. Even if you skip a year on the upgrade it’s basically an even break.
If Autodesk puts out a worth while new version of Max every year, then they customers should be compelled to upgrade or purchase annually.
You cannot upgrade… Autodesk removed that option, also you can’t skip a year because you loose your subscription, so basically if you don’t pay everything every year you loose your capability to upgrade and you will have to acquire a completely new license…
Now subscription speaking, you pay around 600€/year as max subscription, but you can’t skip a year, but at least if I decided to drop subscription I can keep my license, if there is not going to be more perpetual license… then… forget about that option.
With Adobe you pay around 60€/month or 720€/year for ALL their software, not just photoshop, or After Effects.
Now think you need Max, Maya and Mudbox, think how much could it cost, it will be something unsusteinable for small business.
Really, no perpetual license could make us drop Autodesk completely, not by our decission, but forced by Autodesk.
If they give us Max/Maya/Mobu/Mudbox ALL for 60€/100€ month… then they may retain us, if they try to charge us 250€/month just for max… well… I said it already…
Cheers.
The important part regarding perpetual licenses comes near the end of the transcript when Bass says he doesn’t expect to see anyone offering perpetual licenses 3 years from now.
i stopped my subscription in 2011. saved me a lot of money with all the useless updates autodesk released. with the 2015 ex1 i was considering buying the 2016 version if they catch up even more… but with this news :/ not so sure anymore.
I stopped at 2013.
Post May 2015 would require a whole new license, even now it’s way more money than I’m willing to spend for fairly minor features.
The longer it’s left the better value it is for me, unless of course it becomes a rental model.
In the case of that, then sorry, no – not ever. A lowered rental cost and expanded list of apps wouldn’t make a difference – I just don’t trust Autodesk.
I’ve stuck with CS6 for the same reasons.
To clarify, I think the developers are hamstrung by decisions made by people above them, and it does the product no favours, nor the customer, just satisfies shareholders short-term.
Anyway, let’s see what happens in October, but their past record for this type of stuff isn’t stellar.
That’s the problem with Autodesk – they will always be worried how to do LEAST(spent less) while skin users for every penny they got – tnx to monopoly that to this day I do not understand how they were allowed to acquire(max/xsi/maya). Meanwhile users have the pleasure of being hostage and subscribed for undefined/unknown updates just for another year of disappointments. This policy is great in short term however in long run causes stagnation and allows fierce competition to sprout. Lets take a look:
* Blenders yearly growth outpaces both max,maya combined and multiplied; the features in each update are ridiculous and affect every part of the program including updating CORE while ADSK just acquires some expensive plugin for maya and less expensive (EOL) plugin for max. On top of that roadmap is 100% transparent – you know what is coming! Not to mention whole program being based(deeply integrated) with Python allowing you to bend it to your will or use countless plugins developed by open source community. They also listen to users criteria in contrast to ADSK who cannot even fix the damn XREF(and containers) for what has now been forever(vs blenders impressive dependency graph updates)… Instead they know better what we need which is most defiantly not a fully functional 3D application. Same can be said about animation side of things( *cough* track view)… TOTAL NEGLECT
* C4D is already superb alternative as I had a pleasure to work with it for over a year. It has great pricing models and flavors (unlike ADSK inflated prices in Europe) – e.g you do not need to buy fullbown STUDIO edition for your modeler. It’s also extremely fast to work with + Xpresso and PYTHON allow you replicate any 3dsmax/maya behavior you may miss and a lot more. It’s a lot faster to work with on smaller projects than maya, max that often require time consuming workarounds or brute force script based approach. Same time it does not seem to scale too well with complexity and flexibility for bigger studio needs.
* Modo – that’s next gen of DCC growing at impressive pace yearly. In hands of The Foundry I would not be surprised if Modo will be the leading DCC application of tomorrow. Lack of procedural modeling it a bit harder to love + it still has some growing to do on animation/production side of things.
* Best for last – HOUDINI which is the most awesome software on the market with generous pricing models(e.g HOUDINI INDIE) for insane capability. After adapting to it I AM NOT LOOKING BACK! I still appreciate semi-procedural and non destructive workflow of max however working in maya seems like agony compared to it.
In a nutshell, there are really wonderful alternatives. Let them try and make the choice easy for everyone. A lot of studios and individuals will certainly reevaluate their relationship with ADSK. While monopoly and pipelines do not change over night (especially with bigger studios and their needs), my belief is that anything ADSK touches will deteriorate/stagnate to a point they will pull a plug (@XSI, combustion, lots more). Proof is in the pudding.
Sorry for long post and getting a bit carried away.
these subscriptions are such a baloney. adobe does not even provide a possibility to purchase without a credit card.
no idea how the autodesk prices should be viable for smaller studios/freelancers.
consumers should have more choice in how they want to purchase the product. not less.
but ofcourse members of the board dont care one bit.
@nw
totally agree with you! Some years ago Autodesk provided me with a free student version of Max which I really enjoyed learning. Now, when I look at the meagre, ridiculous updates and the way they treat customers me and my colleagues decided to go with Blender and Houdini. (F*** y**, Autodesk and shareholders!!)
We just want to stay away from Autodesk as far as possible and Houdini surpasses Max by far and maybe even Maya, dunno but once I was comfortable with Max and started up Maya – it was just the opposite of straightforward!!
Just a shame that Modo has its destructive ways and the drawbacks production wise, as you say. Would have jumped on the bandwagon otherwise.
And speaking of non-destructive and procedural, let’s not forget to mention Rhino 5 by McNeel.
They offer a generous 80% discount for students and you may use it commercially even after you graduate. We thought it is interesting since it has a procedural approach (with Grasshopper) to modelling.
And speaking of generous, even Adobe isn’t as much of a devil compared to ADSK. The discounts you get as a student are indeed remarkable. Bought the whole Master Collection CS6 and am able to use it commercially even now after graduation.
Now, I am getting comfortable with Houdini and Blender, wouldn’t even want to work with ADSK products if they gave them to me for free. ..
I will also drop my subscription to Autodesk. Hate to do it, but there are alternatives like Cinema 4D and Modo.
I’m learning Houdini now (Absolutely love Indie license because it is extremely reasonable for hobbyist work; only drawback is it is hard to find good sources for self learning). Was seriously considering Maya because of the FX focus, attractive plug-ins, Bifrost. But with this news, I’m definitely staying away and reserve any serious commitment for when clear news comes out. I communicated before with a person at Autodesk and they told me they were not going to do this subscription only thing; it appears that was not true.
It could be they don’t honestly know. Or at the time it was true.
It’s pretty naive to think a policy is set in stone, or a product is safe.
What annoys me is when they flatly deny a product is going to be axed, when it’s obvious to anyone it’s not getting any attention – Softimage, Combustion etc.
It’s a very one-way street, they can’t divulge info because of stock market regulations, but expect people to buy into 3-year subscription deals.
Even the super-secret roadmap things aren’t any kind of guarantee that something will make it into a product, half the things I heard seemed to be more pie-in-the-sky, considering how slow development has been on Max.
All that cobblers over XBR – is it finished, if not what stage is it at, is it still even going, or has it been abandoned and now ‘agile’ is the new thing?
F***ed if I know.
it’s just really sad, i love 3dsmax..used it from version 2.5 and yet autodesk just seem to be doing everything in their power to drive me away.
I feel desperately glum for the artists working long days in 3dsmax to see them looking around for alternative because of such poor management from autodesk.
Alternatives:
modo has a long way to go and is a destructive workflow but a nice renderer, lightwave has gone dark for nearly 3 years..where that’s heading i don’t know…houdini indie looks a bargain but also look really tough to learn.
blender looks okay but is not quite there yet for many people..and cinema4d..if they dropped their pricing..i’d jump onboard.
I think I’m going to buy a Houdini Indie license, myself. That’s just an incredible offer. When AD changed the upgrade policy on Max, I was livid (still am). They wiped out the EDU to Commercial discount they have long been offering to students coming out of college. Where are they going to get $3700 + $750 subscription, doing small freelance jobs to try and pay for rent, groceries, gas, etc.?
Then they bumped the upgrade price from $795 to $2800. WTF? Then they follow that up by saying….sorry, no more upgrades. If you need to skip a year or two because of the economy and our weak releases, then you’ll have to pay full pop all over again!
These policies are borderline criminal. People have a lot tied up in these applications. Plugins, scripts, time and $$$ learning the app and those plugins, etc. So, AD uses that reality to put the screws to their customers.
The rental option is a barely acceptable one for the short term, but it is still way too pricey, long term….unless you happen to be a mid-size studio or larger. I think the only solution is for AD shareholders to fire those who devised these pricing strategies…even if it goes all the way up to the CEO, himself.
You got it wrong. It’s the shareholders themselves who are pushing for these policies. No matter if it they end up sinking the ship in the long term… they only see the short term benefits.
I doubt the shareholders are telling the AD execs just how to screw the end customer over. They just want reaults. Problem is, AD’s Execs are making matters worse…by using coercive tactics. They brag that their subscription/rental #’s are up. Geesh, I wonder why? 🙂
By removing upgrades, of course the rental numbers will go up! It’s because it’s the only feasible option remaining to choose.
As of 2015 we’re removing 2 of the 4 choices for existing customers – see *
1. Upgrade * – GONE
2. Subscription* – with penalties – miss re subscribing within a release and you will be GONE off subs.
3. Rental – 10 x times the cost of adobe or houdini indie per year.
4. Buy a new full seat of 3ds Max – remember you’ll also be required to open a new subs account too (increased new sub cost).
so Autodesk’s long game is rental (and that might be coming sooner than we think)
3ds Max rental?…not at 10x the cost of Houdini Indie for example
3ds Max rental?…not if i move over to use Modo and add Vray or Octane
3ds Max rental?….not if i use Blender + Vray or Octane or Cycles.
3ds Max rental?… not if I jump aboard Maxon Cinema4d R16.
3ds Max rental?… not if i buy Lightwave 11.7 and Arnold Render.
3ds Max rental?….not if i just keep my current 3dsmax and add Vray…i’ll be in the same boat as Softimage users.
Autodesk, what are you doing?…do you want to drive users away?
we have options and we’ll use them if you go down this bully boy route,
Am I so naïve to think this is all about greed? I would prefer to think the best of people or corporations (since corporations are people) but it is becoming increasingly difficult to do so. I bet that the owners of Autodesk are banking on the fact that people that complain about company policies are more bluster than action? I, for one, will follow through and avail myself of one of the options that Steve Gilbert (above) presented. Capitalism and greed do mot mix.
I quit once. I’d toyed with the idea of jumping back on in a few releases to get the most value out of a new seat, but a rental model would rule that out.
There’s not much else I can do other than not touch any paid Autodesk product with a 10 foot bargepole.
Corporatations *are* people, but people can be terrible as well, especially if they can distance themselves within the safety of a group or a corporation.
I just judge Autodesk on what they’ve done, which seems to be mainly
buying up products and killing them through neglect
Punishing customers under the guise of ‘simplifying their product line’ (Upgrades etc)
Limiting extensions to BFF Suite customers
Trying to stereotype what a user is, or should be (these tools aren’t for you)
In short, the future of Max isn’t in the hands of the talented people working on it, it’s in the hands of the people above them who have consistently made what I consider to be rotten decisions for the past few years.
@Steve Green
Well said!
@Daniel
The Best resources for learning Houdini are
3. 3DBuzz
2. Digital Tutors (pay one month and watch them all 😉 )
and of course
1. cmiVFX.
If you subscribe to their newsletter you will be notified of upcoming
discount days quite often and the discount is sometimes even as high as 70% !!
If someone “loves” the modifier stack in 3ds Max and the amount of control it provides – they will be even happier with Houdini!
ADSK is not in the same position as Adobe. Max and Maya already have competition. The other companies must be smiling waiting for ADSK to make its rentals move.
Houdini Indie is rental.
Houdini Indie is $199 a year not £1280 plus VAT a year (3ds max)
Well, i can`t afford 3dsmax for €1560,– a year.
That`s simply not possible, sorry.
Paying the current subscription fee is OK for me, though.
Leaving 3dsmax would be a really sad thing for me, i`m using it since the R1 release in 1995 and i still loving this tool.
Hope it`s not going to happen like this…